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#1 AS Web Support Group Jump to new posts
Re: SIBO and possibly a better solution gratefulOne 12/11/24 01:53 AM
Hi DragonSlayer,

Maybe my wording was a bit off and I didn't explain it well...
I appreciate and honor everything you've done, the help you have provided myself and others have been instrumental, and I do not mean to offend anyone.

To clarify:

I am not disagreeing with Enbringer's Molecular Mimicry theory. I completely understand that Klebsiella is the issue for HLA-B27 people.


1. I was alluding to the possibility that the majority of the AS community is more effected by Klebsiella in the small intestine through SIBO, than an overgrowth in the large intestine. It seems that many people also have food sensitivities outside of starch, which from my understanding is caused by some sort of imbalance in the small intestine.

It's also like what you explained to me about the timing of response to a flare. The only logical explanation for a quick reaction for starchless food (less than an hour) is SIBO. It seems like many people respond so quickly in the AS community.


2. I'm not entirely sure it is necessary to eliminate 100% of the klebsiella in the large intestine. I've read many times that Klebsiella when present in a small and balanced amount- is naturally part of a healthy gut flora in the large intestine - for everyone. I understand that klebsiella is a problem in the large intestine - when there is an overgrowth. The body will respond to this overgrowth to try and restore balance; for HLA-B27 people - the response also causes active AS symptoms.

I'm thinking that if everyone naturally has a small amount of Klebsiella in the large intestine, the body shouldn't respond because nothing is abnormal (as long as the quantity of klebsiella is within a small and healthy amount). No response = No AS symptoms for HLA-B27 people. It would only make sense that if the human body is designed to have a small amount of klebsiella in the large intestine, that it would not try to eliminate it.

For the small intestine, yes - I do believe you must eliminate 100% of klebsiella. This is primarily because they do not belong in the small intestine, and the body will produce a reaction to try and eliminate them from an area of the body they do not belong in, even if only present in small quantities. Also, they are very resilient, and will keep reproducing with food sources outside of starch while inside the small intestine.


Also, while researching and looking through many different cases, I saw many similar trends - that led me to a few conclusions.

1. People with severe AS symptoms, especially those who have had AS symptoms very active early in their lives, respond very well to extreme diets (like carnivore) and high doses of Antibiotics.

I possibly think is because this group people have a large Klebsiella overgrowth and also have a lot of bad bacteria in their small intestine. Many people of this group also have many food sensitivities outside of starch.

2. People with mild AS symptoms, or people who get AS symptoms much later in life (like my dad), may report that Antibiotics make things worse. I noticed about half the people in this group report that Antibiotics made symptoms worse after use, or developed food sensitivities.

My guess is that they didn't go far enough with their protocol to exterminate everything in their gut. In the end they didn't get rid of the klebsiella in a large enough quantity, and may have killed off a greater quantity of beneficial bacteria. The increase in AS symptoms must mean that the overall ratio of Klebsiella vs. Beneficial bacteria has shifted for the worse, and they are still consuming foods that feeds the klebsiella- allowing them to prosper and colonize more area after removing much of the "good bacteria".

3. Many people who go restrictive diets for extended periods of time, do worse in the long term. When I mean restrictive diets, I mean people who do carnivore or eat the same foods everyday. When I mean worse, I mean previously safe foods start to flare them up.

I think that the short term and immediate effect is so powerful, that this group of people decide to stay on these diets for longer than they should. In the end, the quantity of klebsiella is obviously reduced, but so is the beneficial bacteria. A significantly reduced amount of important nutrients is missing, this leads to food sensitivities as the microbiome has changed and the body is no longer used to foods previously eaten in the past. When this person tries to introduce new foods back in (even if previously safe), it might result in a flare - depending on how much the microbiome has changed. I think these super restricted diets might also increase leaky gut, due to lack of nutrients, the caveat being - some individuals might be taking enough supplements or including a very beneficial group of food (like bone broth for example) within their very restrictive diet.


I understand that I'm still very new to this topic, and I have the upmost admiration for those who have dealt with this so long, through the good and bad, and those who have persevered. I also recognize that I might be completely incorrect in every single one of my claims.

These are just some conclusions that I've come up with, based on the information I've read. Some of the information I've looked at could be wrong....

Let me know what you think. I'm a naturally curious person, and I would like to know if you think I'm on to anything - or just another confused idiot smile
7 1,701 Read More
Alternatives and ALCHEMISTS Jump to new posts
Re: Azithioprene for Ankylosing spondylitis L33ZN 12/11/24 01:18 AM
Hi Guys Apologies for the wrong spelling of Azathioprine.

You would think posting an important helpful drug like this, one would put the correct spelling, but I was so excited about it's efficency I totally forgot to check the spelling of it.

If you AI search it with the wrong name on chatGPT or wattsapp AI it would self correct you and give you the correct info anyway.

Azathioprine has been a life changer for me really. I need to do a CRP and ESR test to see how low they are currently.
I want to see if it nears normal, something I haven't had for more than 10 years now. I still have my records from tests I did years ago privately. These 2 tests show highly elevated when I'm in lots of pain. Now almost pain free you can say.

I'm off Azathioprine for 2 months now, only took it for one month total and still I feel my immune system has backed off from attack ( fingers crossed), but now I feel I have something tangible to directly help my AS( without taking expensive biological meds) something I can afford being unemployed.

I am very angry why my Reumatologists team never ever mention this medication and so much of damage has occurred to my spine as a result and this medication is not new at all. I guess they are programed robots by the medical system that just spit out profitable medication to them.

Yes it is a medication used in kidney transplant and Lupus and not essentially used for Ankylosing spondylitis, I see all auto immune conditions as related they just name the condition differently according to the tissues/ organs involved. Lucky I'm an Engineer and technician and look at the problem in a practical manner. Immune system hurt me = Kill immune system.
1 81 Read More
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