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Joined: Oct 2011
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Andre Offline OP
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Hi dieters. NSD newbie here. I have a question about Klebsiella and starch. I understand that Klebsiella in intestinal biofilms gets (most of?) its energy from dietary starch. Presumably it does not get the energy from cleaving the starch into glucose, but from oxidation or fermentation of the glucose itself.

In that case, why is glucose monosaccharide OK to eat, but not starch? Surely the bacteria will happily digest straight glucose if it's available?

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If I understand correctly, the hypothesis here is that Glucose is mostly consumed and used for energy before it gets to the intestines, and thus does not reach the klebsiella.

Glucose digestion starts even in our mouths as many diabetics would know.

This is why some people report sensitivity to high amounts of sugar, or cooked sugar which may be encapsulated and survive the early digestion.

However, all these hypotheses are not proven.

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Andre Offline OP
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I think most dietary glucose (and starch after it's broken down to glucose) is absorbed in the small intestine. Maybe Klebsiella mainly lives of so-called resistant starch in the large intestine?

Edit: apparently the bacterium lives at the end of the small intestine and the start of the large intestine (https://www.kickas.org/londondiet.shtml).

Last edited by Andre; 10/19/11 09:08 PM.
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Indeed there are many people who are wary about sugar, I avoid sugary fruits like stone fruits. Even things like smoked fish can upset my digestion, presumably because they are very often baisted in some kind of ?sugary solution.

Approx 70% of AS patients have subclinical (occult) ileal inflammation - and the ileum is the last part of the small intestine, just before the large intestine starts.

All the best - and especially good luck with NSD.

David


Dx Oct 2006 B27+ undifferentiated spondlyarthropathy (uSpA) with mild sebhorrhoeic dermatitis and mild Inflammatory Bowel Disease (IBD) controlled by NSD since 2007.
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Andre Offline OP
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Hmm, That's might be a problem for me, my afib is triggered when I get close to ketosis. I ended up in the ER last time I tried this. I though I could get around it this time by eating 50-100g of pure glucose per day.

I guess it's still worth a try, maybe I'm an excellent glucose absorber smile

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Glucose is worth a try. I still have some soreness and muscle issues when I eat glucose or sucrose, but nothing like the deep bone aching and problems moving my joints that I get if I eat starch.


Symptomatic since 1996
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Andre Offline OP
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In case this comes up in anybody's search, I tried zero starch but some fruit and supplemental glucose for about 5 months, but saw no change in my condition. I also have diagnosed over-abundance of Klebsiella oxytoca, so I was somewhat surprised that I had no effect (except getting slightly leaner) from this diet.

Oh well, it was a low risk + low cost intervention, and therefore worth a try.

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Hi, Andre:

I am sorry that You did not find any relief from the dietary restrictions You tried.

We call this diet the "NSD," but in many cases it needs to become the NSND (No Starch No Dairy) diet because the lactose and galactose can often make it into the lower gut.

Many fruits should be tested, as Carol Sinclair found out the hard way, but she says most dried fruits are safe.

Also, I have found that in cases of long-standing disease the diet does not seem to work as well; that was my own case. When I added antibiotics, and went off them after a while, the diet had become much more effective.

Keep searching--You will find the answers You need.

HEALTH,
John

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I agree with Horsewoman, when I eat starch I feel sooo bad for days and it is intense. If I eat simple sugars I don't feel tiptop, but it is much different than eating starch/grains; Its like night and day. Dairy hates my body too, I can eat it once a week if I'm lucky. I use almond milk instead of milk.

Hope you figure out a diet plan that helps your pain. Take care!


Diet change has improved my RA. I feel best eating raw veggies and some fruits and avoiding grains, sugars, nightshades, beans and dairy. Sed rate dropped from 65 to 19, but it took over a year.
www.fatsickandnearlydead.com

excess fat/oils = pain for me
recipes for raw food on Youtube "raw food romance"
and "healing josephine" Josephine is in remission from RA after two years by change diet/exercise
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Andre Offline OP
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For the record I also eat no dairy, and I Iodine-tested all the types or fruit and vegetable I ate (but not each individual piece). I'm pretty sure I had a very low intake of starch, but of course with plants comes other polysaccharides (e.g. inulin and pectin) that may or may not feed undesirable bacteria.

Last edited by Andre; 04/25/12 11:38 AM.
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