Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; colonic irrigation

As someone who is new to the field of starch free diet and the possibilities of micrtorgainsims being present in the intestines. I have not seen any discussion on colonic irrigation. Would cleansing of the colon help remove these? Do any other members have any experience of this?

Hello, Stewart:

I have done this quite a bit and it is especially helpful day 2 into extended fast. But elimination of the germ is much more complex than internal irrigations, albeit it can help remove some of the substrate (wrong foodstuff).

Although I am a proponent, it is not something we discuss very often, but Giraud Campbell in his book with the terrible title "The Proven New Home Cure for Arthritis," discusses this and there are many "recipes" that can be used. Also Edgar Cayce material and Dr. Max Garten proposed such a measure as part of their cleansing regimens.

HEALTH,
John

I have had this done... many times when I lived in Arizona where it was readily available as treatment. Only once since as was not well accepted in Wisconsin or here in Argentina. I have to travel 2 hours here if I want the procedure.

It worked extremely well for me... after having these procedures done I knew that my case of AS was tied to intestinal health.

Best

Tim

Many thanks for replies. My problem is that I am a consumer of information, once I find the subject useful. As with many AS suffers I am still on the NSADs and have had the best physio money can buy. I still have content pain in my hips, some in my neck and one of my knees is somewhat painful. RT want's me to try TNF blockers, which I think I will try. The logic behind the Mimicry has me interested and I am prepared to spend some time on testing this with a change in diet. I supose one outstanding question is whether you can or you should attempt to kill off Klebsiella. Starving it has some logic to it, why can't it be removed? I need to understand the dormancy factor with this so that I can work on how to reduce this over time.

Stewart

I'm sure someone else can explain it better than me but it's my understanding that klebsiella is a normal part of bowel flora and is all around us. So even if one were to completely get rid of it, you'll get "re-inoculated" unless you live in a bubble. It's when the numbers grow too large and go where they don't belong that a person gets sick- with a uti, bronchitis/pneumonia OR given the right genetic make-up, ankylosing spondylitis.

I've been shopping for washing machines and one of the models has a sanitize option. The specs on it list the 3 most common bacteria found in laundered clothes- k. Pneumonia was one of the 3 (I think the other two were staph and E. coli but don't quote me on that). That actually shocked me - I have not started using tongs to move the wet clothes to the dryer. I may start wearing gloves tho:)

Long story short, in addition to reducing numbers through diet, we should work on healing our guts so the little [*bleep*] don't escape elsewhere and boosting good bacteria to keep the bad ones at bay. For some cutting starch is enough to put all those things in motion. I've gone on rounds of antibiotics, they really help but then side effects kick-in, I take a break and my arthritis gets worse. I'm hoping with all the gut microbiome studies happening now, someone will figure out the right probiotic mix of strains that will help autoimmune. Colonics do seems like a good way to 'start fresh' in that part of the digestive system but I'd think you need to work on cleaning up the small intestine with diet for it to be effective for spondy. this is all just my opinion.

MaryCay

MaryCay-
hmmmm, I deliver and pick up felons, many of whom, do laundry / cleaning in motels. they were sick all winter. I know when they clean they wear gloves. But I will ask about bedding. Because many of the roustabouts and temporary crew members are very dirty people and their germs are everywhere!

Hello, Stewart:



Regret there is no real 'dormant' period for this germ. It is ancient, genetically diverse, hearty, adaptive, stealthy, and ubiquitous; there is no killing it off totally and even macrophage therapy can only handle one strain at a time.

However, antibiotics (the right agents at the right times) shine as the great miracle they are when properly employed against AS; it is not as simple as a pill--there are still some dues to pay--but these drugs really make the diet work many times better than otherwise.

So best to get off the NSAIDs (I have not even taken an aspirin in 16 years) to heal the gut and NSD to reduce the general population of our nemesis bacterium. But if these measures are not enough, there are still more options down the road. You can check out my AP for AS in my signature "Important AS Resources," if interested.

HEALTH,
John

If antibiotics work by reducing the klebsiella overgrowth, how does anti-tnf also work?

Wouldn't the immune supressing biologics allow the klebsiella to multiply and make AS worse?

This is a genuine question, not an opinion, I don't know the answer!

Hello, Staffy:




For biologics I would suggest that the immune suppression is not enough to promote bacterial multiplication to the extent it would make AS much worse. Not so for other agents that radically STOMP upon our immune systems: Steroids and methotrexate; these are very bad for us, long-term.

The way the chimeric drugs work is by reacting with pro-inflammatory products before they have a chance to cause problems. This is a very clever approach and also very selective. Antibiotics can help reduce Kp overgrowth and even help eliminate or reduce some colonies, but this germ is nearly impossible to completely eradicate and can reestablish rapidly. But control of the germ is much more effective at controlling AS than other methods--and orders of magnitude less expensive.

HEALTH,
John