Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; Autoimmune Paleo Protocol or 3 day Apple Fast?

I am currently experiencing a flare after 2 years of fairly limited symptoms (with NSD and humira) so looking at different options. I’ve heard many people refer to the 3 day Apple diet but I wonder if anyone has tried the autoimmune paleo protocol? Has anyone tried both? What are your thoughts/experiences?

Any ideas are welcome!

I ate strict paleo diet for many years to manage my arthritis. I had realized on my own that dairy and grains were a problem, so I felt much better on a paleo diet, which eliminates those foods. But I knew I was still missing something, and even tracked all of my food to figure it out. Eventually I found my way to KickAS and discovered the starch connection, which was an absolute revelation.

The AIP really isn't very different from regular paleo. The instructions tend to eliminate nightshades, eggs and nuts, limit fruits and encourage bone broth. They never, ever suggest eliminating starches. Back in my pre-NSD days I tried the AIP for awhile during a flare with no positive results. In retrospect, eating sweet potato most days is probably why. I think it's not a bad way to check for sensitivities to eggs, nightshades and fruit. That's about it.

I tried fasting (mostly out of frustration when I was new to NSD) and didn't get very far. I didn't try the apple diet (apples were much too starchy for me early on) and just tried a water fast. There's research to support general health benefits from short-term water fasting, so I figured I would try it. My goal was 3 days but I only made it to about 32 hours. I did feel better though!

Have you posted what you're eating these days to the forum? I find that's a really useful way to identify potential red flags in the diet. There are some foods that nutrient databases show as low starch that others have had issues with, - this feedback has informed my own choices with good results. I am also much less strict about my starch intake now than I was in my first 6 months; is it possible you may be eating foods that are too starchy?

Hello Verona,

Prior to having a family I did the 3 days of apples a couple of times a year, really helped me... I did not use it to get out of flares, used it more to heal intestines and improve digestion so I could stay on No Starch Diet as I struggled with energy early with diet.

The first couple of times I did the fast, experienced headaches from the release of toxins most likely in body. I usually started 3 days of apples on a Friday and took it easy on the weekend as completed the fast.

Here is a link: 3_day_apple

Now each Friday I do a water fast until supper and then only eat a couple of salads to give my body about 24 hours of rest from digestion.

Regards,

Tim

Thank you both!

I have been on this AIP for 6 days and so far it has been going well. I think you’re right though Kelly in that it’s about the starch mostly plus other things you might react to so I’m looking at it from that perspective. I have been eating no starch for a while now and am very strict about it. I do eat some lactose free dairy though and nightshade normally so I’m curious how I will react.

I like the idea of the short term water fast - after I’m done the AIP elimination and reintroduction phases I will give that a try!

I've read that many people have other food sensitivities in addition to starch which can cause inflammation. The most common ones are:

Gluten (wheat flour, white flour, breads, pastas, etc)
Corn
Soy
Dairy
Nightshades (tomatoes & peppers, eggplants & potatoes also fall under this umbrella but I'm assuming you had eliminated these with NSD)

I've heard that doing a reset where you combine AIP and NSD (extremely hard, I know) and then slowly add foods back in to see what your specific triggers are can be helpful.

3 day Apple fast has always worked for me. On the 3rd day I was always pain free. Other sources of inflammation such as rhinitis / waterworks also benefited enormously too. There can be tiny amounts of starch in an apple when out of season and iodine can make it look like it is worse than it really is ie: iodine tells you it is present but is not quantitative. Anyways for the purposes of 3 day Apple fast just do it and don’t even check the apples with iodine - you can test later when back to NSD.

Stone fruit are a different matter. Don’t eat them until you know your safe foods.

Hi Verona, I've actually never posted here but have gained an insane amount of value from this forum and saw something about AIP so I had to chime in.

I have been doing AIP for 1.5 years with zero medication and it has saved my life! By the time I was first diagnosed with AS 2 years ago I had such bad SI inflammation I could barely walk most days. Classic story about crawling on my hands and knees to the bathroom in the night in excruciting pain, etc etc. I was finally diagnosed with blood test (HLAB27+) and MRI (bilateral sacroiliitis) and was perscribed my choice of Enbrel or Humira. After some research I found this forum and decided to take a crack at diet first. I found NSD then did AIP + NSD at the same time (very difficult) and then switched over to AIP.

Within 6 months on AIP my symptoms reduced by 90%. Two days ago I deadlifted 300lbs. Two years ago I couldn't even pull my pants up in the morning! I'm not out of the woods yet, but I'm happy and healthy.

More recently, I introduced a plethora of fermented foods to my diet and I feel like this has helped even more. What I like about AIP + gut healing via fermented foods is the focus on actually healing your body and getting to place where you can reintroduce certain foods (which I have) and be a normal person again. NSD seems to me more like a treatment where AIP+ferments is a cure.

I still do get the occasional flareup when I drink too much or slack on the diet. This is where fasting can work wonders. Back in august I got such a bad flareup I couldn't even lift my arms, I was almost completly paralyzed with pain. I did a 5 day water fast and the symptoms were 100% gone. I forgot what is was like to feel that good. It actually rasied the bar for me in the sense that it changed my definition of "symptom free".

Don't believe all the worry about how difficult water fasting is. It's really not a big deal. If you can do NSD for 2 years you can do a 5 day fast no problem. The second that flareup starts to melt away you won't even think about it. Just pull the trigger and don't make it a big deal in your head. It's not.

Thanks to everyone on this wonderful forum. Keep kickin [*bleep*].

I found this article this morning, it seems the medical world are slowly recognising the link between AS and Gut health (bacteria).

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/ankylosing-spondylitis-and-the-microbiome

I agree that eating fresh whole foods, fermented foods and thereby establishing a healthy gut are the key to healing this condition.

Feed the good bacteria fibre and they will kill all the bad stuff and detoxify your gut.

Hi! I haven’t been on in a while. How is everyone doing? I just started the AIP diet again for the second time (the first time was about 3 years ago and I failed to do the reintro properly). Anyway, I was doing keto before that and having good success but it wasn’t perfect so I decided to do this. I am sort of low starch as well. I have been feeling pretty great since starting! I have only been doing it this time for a little over a week, so time will tell. I’m planning to do it for at least 30 days before the reintro phase begins, but it depends how well managed the pain is and has been at that point. Are any of you still doing AIP or did anyone start doing it recently? Love to hear how it’s going!