http://www.amazon.com/The-Paleo-Approach-Reverse-Autoimmune/dp/1936608391

The author has some contradicting advice, says to incorporate root vegetables (cassava, sweet potatoes), stay away from almonds (and almost all nuts), soy... Most of the other stuff is spot on though. She does make a brief mention of the low starch diet, but didn't include it in the book because it "has not been validated in the scientific literature".

Hello, wle1:

Have not read the book.



And never shall read the book. Even if statement were accurate, WHO has checked ALL the "scientific" literature? Attitudes like this have kept back progress for too many years; Thank You for exposing the fraudulent nature of the author.

HEALTH,
John

I have not read the book but belong to the paleo approach facebook group and have followed the the authors blog for quite some time. In defense of the autoimmune paleo diet (which the book is about ) it's geared toward all autoimmune. And most autoimmune paleo authors say you have to figure out what works for you - which may be the addition of low starch, low fodmap, low histamine, figure out food allergies, underlying infections etc.

Many on the facebook group say they have done really well/achieved remission on autoimmune paleo diet with safe starches. But I've noticed the spondy members of the group recommend cutting starch if you've been diagnosed with spondylitis or you're not having success on AIP and have arthritis symptoms. I stopped being active on the facebook group, it was too hard seeing the hard push for safe starches by alot of the members.

Anyway, that's my two cents MaryCay

I've skimmed the book, and would say like MaryCay above that the Paleo Autoimmune Protocol can help improve, and even completely correct health problems for many with autoimmune related disease.

I get the most reduction in symptoms (close to no symptoms) if I follow the AIP alonng with no starch. Like others keep stressing when dealing with autoimmune disease, you need to do your own research. It's more or less a custom fit

I think if you want to read about autoimmune disease in general, and how nutrition serves us to take charge of our health all by ourselves, then spend some time with that book.

For managing spondy symptoms you will most likely need to remove starches as well though. It's all about doing your own detective work, to figure out what combination of nutrition, supplements, and activity that will reduce your symptoms the most.

I think it's great that the Paleo community (I like Mark Sisson: marksdailyapple.com) is bringing the focus on the role of nutrition in chronic illness to the table.

Functional/integratvie medicine is another camp stressing similar points.

It seems for me these days that even eliminating starch, sugar, coffee, and just about everything, I still can't get rid of the pain...

Is it muscle cramping and back pain or joint burning? I've found that I need to take a magnesium supplement every day. It's a muscle relaxer so if you're having inflammation in the joints, I'm not sure if this is helpful but if it feels like muscle cramping, maybe give it a try. Sometimes my inflammation and cramping seem to go hand in hand so it's hard to tell what's what but I usually know for sure that I need more magnesium when my back really hurts and I start getting leg or foot pain as well.

I have been following The Paleo Mom for a couple of years to stay up to date on what is going on in the paleo world these days.

In The Paleo Mom's recent email newsletter that I received last week she announced she was just diagnosed with "fibromyalgia and likely some form of arthritis in every single joint."

I wonder if we will see any changes to the full AIP diet she promotes in her books as she addresses her new diagnosis of fibro and arthritis? Overall I find most "AIP" recipes are generally higher in starches then regular "Paleo" recipes, this is because AIP recipes will often increase the use of starches like tapioca starch, cassava, arrowroot starch, plantains, tiger nuts, and sweet potatoes to replace the common paleo ingredients of eggs, nuts, and seeds as they (eggs, nuts, and seeds) are not allowed on AIP. AIP also includes other paleo staples like bone broth, pasture raised meats, veggies, greens, and fruits.

And you can do AIP without the starch but it is a much more limited diet then the "Low Starch Paleo" Diet I enjoy daily. Of course I would love to eat sweet potatoes and plantains but those are huge painful flare-up triggers for me! While foods not allowed on AIP like eggs, nuts and seeds don't trigger any AS symptoms for me, thank goodness. And I am totally nightshade free which is something I do like about AIP as it avoids nightshades too.

Excerpt from The Paleo Mom newsletter last week. I can't link to the actual newsletter from my email, but here is an excerpt I cut and pasted from it (along with a couple screen shots below):








I really appreciate how open and honest The Paleo Mom is with all of us. And I will be curious to see if/how she treats the new diagnosis of arthritis and fibro going forward? I wonder if she will try a low starch paleo approach too? Or maybe she will have insight into other ways to treat arthritis and fibro though a holistic approach...

Interesting Bettyrawker, I'd seen a blog title mentioning a new diagnosis but hadn't read it. I'll be surprised if she cuts back on starch though, because she (and paleo parent, in their radio show) teaches that starch is essential especially for women's hormones. But will look forward to seeing how she addresses the lingering arthritis symptoms.

Another autoimmune paleo book I've wanted to check out is dr. Amy Meyers' Autoimmune Solution. Along with diet, lifestyle, etc., She goes into detail about the role chronic infection, candida, gut dysbiosis, etc. can have on symptoms and gives supplement recommendations. She does sell supplements on her site, but she recommends ones you can buy elsewhere (so I don't think she's using the book to sell her own stuff😁)

Wle1 - I have struggled to find complete relief through diet alone. Antibiotics have put me in remission in the past so adding natural antibiotics interests me. I've been doing gut healing measures for years in addition to cutting starch but still have symptoms. AIP plus no starch also gives me the most relief diet-wise but it's really hard to maintain, I can't keep enough food in me to keep my energy up. It may be worth a shot though if you're still in pain. I notice enough of a difference cutting starch that the no starch diet is worth it for me but it hasn't put me in remission. I need more from the right amount of exercise, enough sleep, and supplements. But I would not give up on diet, you may need to tweek it.

@miniowl
I don't think so, I don't feel that my muscles are stiff. It's like the pain in my back but its moved to the front of my chest

@mcm
What natural antibiotics are you taking? Have you been able to go strictly NSD for any length of time?

@bettyrawker good points.

She seems smart so it's always frustrated me that AIP seemed to be of very limited usefulness to me personally. I think she ignores the principles of NSD/SCD/GAPS that basically starches will feed gram negative bacteria/candida/or whatever bad guys are overgrown and then increase dysbiosis and then perpetuate the vicious cycle.

I found this on her site about myth busting SCD/GAPS/starchy vegetables.
http://www.thepaleomom.com/autoimmunity/the-autoimmune-protocol
"Avoiding starchy vegetables for SIBO has not been validated in the scientific literature (but eating low FODMAP has been proven very effective for people with IBS, IBD and SIBO). Many people do anecdotally find symptom relief from starving overgrowths with these very low carb approaches, but the low carbohydrate/fiber intake can be stressful on the thyroid and cause dysregulated cortisol (and both of those are bad!)."

She's not wrong, I know personally that my thyroid levels are off but I just think maybe she is prioritizing the wrong thing first. Hopefully I'm not ruining my thyroid but in my experience I feel like I can live with a little low T3 but eating a plantain or sweet potato would put me in some serious distress. I am so curious about whether or not she has actually fixed her own dysbiosis.

@wle1 I hope you find some relief, if I come across any other helpful info, I will surely let you know.

I'm glad I found this thread as I was thinking exactly the same about The Paleo Mom's approach to starches. I haven't heard that she has changed her opinion. It might be worth sending a question to The Paleo View podcast! I am tempted. I have her cook books and although AIP they aren't much use to me now as there are so many starches included. But I used them for a couple of years, before finding out about LSD, and during this my pain and symptoms gradually increased.

I have been on NSD for 9 months without any results. I stopped dairy products also. I am not clear which is hindering. I have tried borage oil, apple cider vinegar and oregano oil. Presently taking kefir milk. Still improvement is evading. I have consulted a paleo consultant. He adviced to avoid grapes and suggested to take milk products, beet, sweet potato, potato and tapioca for a month. But I am yet to try them. I understand LSD / NSD for AS FB, members follow sara (paleo mom) and recommends her diet. I am really not clear about the process and confusing because of no results. It appears that diet is a tough, tough, tough … job.

Already my family is unhappy about diet since no results are felt. Keeping the fingures crossed. I am planning for L-glutamine and magnesium. Can anyone suggest the magnesium (chemical) to be taken.

Regards.

Jay

Hi Jay:

Magnesium chelate by Natural Factors is the only form I take. But I think my naturopath's idea of mixing different forms is good and to find a combination that works best for you. Each is absorbed differently and has a different storage and lifetime in your body. I liked taking Mg citrate before bed because it was quickly absorbed, induced some drowsiness but it leaves the body fast. There even is a form that apparently improves cognition.

Mg is great stuff!!

I hope this helps.
Kevin

Hi Robin,

Thank you. I have no support of any naturopath here. Hence, I am checking for magnesium supplements details thro internet. Hope I will soon converge to some.

Jay

Hi Jay,

I consult with my naturopath using Skype from over 10,000 km away. I met her only once; the initial visit.

just an idea for you,
KG

Your paleo consultant's advice to eat high starch foods like tapioca and sweet potato sounds risky. My own experience with paleo-recommended starches is actually what led me to this website!

After years of eating fairly low carb because of avoiding grains and dairy, but before I suspected AS and discovered NSD and this forum, I consciously increased my starch intake. I had been reading on paleo blogs about the benefits of resistant starch to gut diversity and health and was completely sold. I discovered within weeks that potato starch causes me cystitis and then some months later I developed the debilitating and mysterious finger joint pain that eventually led me first to a rheumatologist and then to this site. Strict NSD has since diminished the pain in my fingers 90-95%.


I'm so sorry that your pain hasn't improved. Not sure if this would help, but I have noticed that you often mention eating foods that cause me problems. Case in point: In this post you mention grapes and milk kefir, two foods that absolutely cause my symptoms to worsen.

It's clear that some people here do ok with those foods, but you may not be one of them.

In previous posts I think you have also mentioned foods like legumes, sesame, ginger, apples and turmeric - all foods that are completely out of the question for me. If any of these foods are still in your diet, you may want to try removing.

You are right that the NSD is a tough, tough, job. I eat basically the same things every day to the point of boredom. Every now and then I try something new and while I've had some recent successes (asparagus! okra!) it's disappointing when my results aren't good (walnuts). I admire your persistence. Hopefully it will pay off.

Hi Robin,

Thank you. I am yet to decide about the process of consultation.

Jay

Hi Kellybell,

Thank you for your response.

I have stopped taking grapes after my paleo consultant’s advice. I am not consuming any starchy items suggested by him. I stopped diary items for more than 5 months. I started kefir milk only as probiotic about 25 days back. I have read that lactose in milk is converted with kefir and hence is ok. I have not observed any reaction to kefir since it’s consumption. When it is supposed to show reaction. I have observed reaction within a day after consuming any starchy items. Am I making any misinterpretation?.

I am not taking legumes & sesame now. I have tested with apple and found a particular brand does not change colour with iodine. I am consuming that particular brand of apple. I found the starch content to be less than 0.1 gm / 100 gm, When I checked up for amount starch in apple in internet.

My main issue is increase in iron in blood when I consume meat, fish and nuts. This has been the stumbling block and has to manage with few items which is already limited in number for NSD. Otherwise, I can increase meat consumption to do away with other foods. I am unable to choose a high energy content, less iron and no starch item. What to eat with so much of limitation?. My family is also slowly loosing hope in effectiveness of NSD. But I am determined to continue. But how long is the question?.



You have correctly pointed out the issue with diet.

Several people suggested consuming okra. But the colour changed with iodine. Hence, I have not tried. May be I have to give it a try and see.

Regards.

Jay

Yes, bacteria consume much of the lactose in ferments like kefir, cheese and yogurt, though not all. Clearly not enough for me, my reaction is like clockwork. But if you're not reacting to kefir, then great!


Your iron issue is odd, given that your levels seem to increase with foods that have little or no iron, such as fish and chicken. I have the opposite issue of trying to keep my iron levels up! I now cook everything in cast iron and eat liver more often..


To be clear, okra is in the 'unreliable' category, alongside kale, cabbage, and all fruit: I always need to test it with iodine because the starch content can vary from none to little to lots.

The book I always recommend to A.S. sufferers is

Ankylosing Spondylitis the facts by Professor Muhammad Asim Khan. It tells you all you need to know about A.S. in an easy to understand way. Professor Khan is a rheumatologist who suffers from A.S. So medical knowledge plus personal experience.

Thank you.

Few days back I tested mango, jackfruit and sapote with iodine. The colour has not changed. I took a slice of mango and observed for any reaction for three days and found nil. Today I just took a piece of sapote and is observing.

I will slowly increase the quantity and observe. If no reaction, can we consume it regularly.

Jay

Hello again Jay:

Eating the same food every day. Here's my opinion -- everything in moderation.

If it passes the iodine test and it can be eaten for three or four meals in a row then I think it has past great tests!

However a person could react for allergy or other sensitivity reasons, or a food's introduction in large quantities might create a rapid change in gut flora and hence a reaction that should not have been bad. Perhaps a slow introduction in quantities and frequency would be best. It's debatable.

Some foods have native bacteria and enzymes on them for the purpose of digesting the food and releasing energy to allow seeds to grow. There probably was great advantage in eating foods grown in one's own garden with just wiping the dirt off them; I did that. The dirt probably promoted good microbe tolerance teaching my immune system that they are friends and not foe.

But even if there is no obvious reaction to a food it is possible over time that it could cause slow, insidious and unnoticed gut damage long before you notice. Say you ate oats every morning and didn't know that it was creating low level inflammation in your gut on a daily basis. After twenty years you end up developing increasing food sensitivities, joint aches, head aches, etc. Perhaps that would never have happened if the oats were enjoyed only twice a week, giving the body a rest to heal.

I guess some foods can be eaten every day. Some are probably best to be occasional. Everything in moderation. Also variety is the spice of life. So keep adding to the diet! Your methods seems like it will be very successful.

Just my two cents!
Kevin

Hi Kevin,

Thank you for throwing some information.

Yes. I planned to introduce very slowly. I also planned to take the items, though passed iodine test not frequently.

To be frank, life is boring without any variety of food.

Jay

Hi Jay:

I wouldn't say that life is boring (AS keeps a person occupied in many ways) but I would agree that mealtimes are not appealing and so experimenting with herbs are essential and recipe sources like http://www.forestandfauna.com/

I like the idea of setting one day a week for eating a new recipe. You spend the prior days locating the ingredients and then make on the day. Variety will accumulate. If there are ingredients I can't eat then I substitute with something I can eat.

This pushes our creativity and often provides a nice surprise -- a reward for the need to plan and lack of spontaneity in eating.

Cheers!
Kevin

Hi Kevin,

Thank you for your suggestion.

You have reflected exactly same as I have been planning. Since, I have put up lot of efforts in NSD (10 months so far), I would not like take chance of taking too much of new additions.

Jay