Kickas.org Forums Ankylosing Spondylitis General Discussion #1 AS Web Support Group Chinese Herbal Remedy Rivals SFZ by 31%

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/160933.php

1. Chinese Herbal Remedy Shows Promise for Treating Rheumatoid Arthritis/Autoimmune and Inflammatory Conditions

Rheumatoid arthritis is an autoimmune disease that causes painful and debilitating swelling of the joints. Physicians often prescribe anti-inflammatory drugs such as sulfasalazine for the initial treatment of rheumatoid arthritis. Despite the clinical efficacy of these types of drugs, many patients discontinue treatment due to lack of improvement or adverse events. The Chinese herbal remedy Tripterygium wilfordii Hook F (TwHF) (also known as "lei gong teng" or "thunder god vine") has shown promise in treating autoimmune and inflammatory conditions. Researchers randomly assigned 121 patients to take either TwHF root extract 60mg three times per day or sulfasalazine 1g two times per day for 24 weeks. The researchers used a standard measure of joint involvement to determine treatment outcomes. Many patients in both groups discontinued treatment. However, among those who continued treatment for 24 weeks, improvement was greater with TwHF (67%) than with sulfasalazine (36%) and adverse event rates were similar. The resulst were similar in analyses that adjusted for patient drop-out. Researchers conclude that the rapid improvement in joint symptoms may make TwHF extract an attractive and affordable alternative to anti-inflammatory drugs.



VERY interesting. So, we have a Chinese herb that rivals SFZ...Hhhhmmmmmm Have just been put on SFZ but if this Chinese herb TwHF is as good as it looks, with a 67% improvement as opposed to the SFZ 36% improvement, then it's a no-brainer! Both are reported to carry the *same side effects so nothing to choose there, so all down to the better efficacy. OK. Go with that. Now to find me the TwHF.

thanks for the info molly!

very exciting!

another thing i may be able to ask the new western/alternative medicine doctor.

very interesting.... I found this page on the Phytomedics website (they provided grant support):

PMI-001 is an orally absorbable agent that appears to have activity similar to some of the currently available biologic agents.

that link is here

Great CC, thanks for that. Have just printed it off - will send to rheumies various... Wonder how to getta hold of the Chinese herb - a Chinese herbalist I suppose, DOH!

Exactly what I was on about this afternoon... I'm afraid they may have made an extract from it that you can't buy yet.... that's what I was looking for when I found that site. Well if any of us finds it, we'll know here!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/b...e-for-arthritis

Have started the treck to track down. Found this report from the Guardian (quality UK National n'paper). So, looks like this herb is available. The herb that was used in this reported study was purchased in China, then treated in the USA, before being trialled. Agree, that so far insufficient trials have taken place, also, we don't know the long term effects of this herb, nor do we fully know of the/any and all side effects.

Need more information. Meanwhile, should think that the herb IS available from a Chinese herbalist - only drawback, China has such a bad record re purity etc etc. I would be nervous about ordering up from an unknown source, or even a known source as 'what' process has the herb gone through afore it hit my body...? Always the moot point. But, will track this down.

Watch this space 'smile'.

Found a bit more info. This article is interesting - and gives info as to 'where' to get in China (same place as the USA fellas got from) "T2 is available directly via the Internet" but, is reported to be highly *toxic! Hmmmmmm. That makes me nervous. Now, am on SFZ and will be having bloods drawn to toxic side effects, but, IF self administering via the internet, then one would not have access to that monitoring. Think I'll wait for this 'med' to come to legit market!!: http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/full/57/3/512

Molly C
goin a diggin (done diggin!!)

http://www.yourhealthbase.com/chinese_medicine.html

This one on Chinese Herbal medecines. Interesting information. Worth reading through, as gives interactions and noted it hit a couple of 'our' drugs/meds...

Don't take Echinacea or Zinc IF RA. Don't take licquorice IF on pred... Worth reading and highliting for own files. We could do with a files section here.

arrrg! I just started zinc to help with my ldn 'state of mind'. I wish they would say why ... this is the other side of the coin to taking matters into your own hands!

thanks Molly. now to decipher the zinc dillemna (hope JennyF takes a peak at this thread)..

Molly, help a sister out... is the following from Dr lawrence??;
. It has been observed that those suffering with any of the auto-immune diseases (such as multiple sclerosis, rheumatoid arthritis, psoriasis, etc); atopic problems (allergy, eczema, asthma or migraine); or many of the inflammatory diseases (such as osteo-arthritis, ME or irritable bowel syndrome), have a consistent, and often severe, zinc deficiency, which is greatly benefited by a programme of zinc replacement therapy.

I failed to supply myself with a foot note on that one... do you recognize that? Do you think the herbalist is approaching this as an over active immune thing and is therefore stating any kind of immuno-support is what is contraindicated?

Yes. I certainly recognise Dr L's note there. And also, have an idea that John (Dragon-Slayer) says to take zinc as well as Dr L.

Will have to re-read the herbalist. OK. Have re-read: "Immunostimulants such as Echinacea and zinc should not be given with immunosuppressants such as corticosteroids (prednisone, etc.) and cyclosporine and are contraindicated in patients suffering from rheumatoid arthritis and systemic lupus erythematosus."

So, only applies if on corticosteroids (Pred etc) or cylosporine or IF RA or IF Lupus. Right, well, that aint AS. And I aint on Pred (shiver me timbers, never again!) I am on SSZ and Remedeine and LDN (just taken me night dose) and also on amytriptolyne - and I take me zinc.

Yes, zinc is an immunostimulent. 'Zap it with zinc'. Vit-C with Zinc - great stuff when the winter buggles are about. Really knocks em flying.

IF one is on immunosuppressents, then to take an immunostimulent would be contraindicated. Makes sense. But LDN aint an immunosuppressent. What's sulphasalazine? Have only just started it - so far so good. I 'think' it's working for me. SIs feel much better. Hope it's not a contra to zinc. (Better check it out - not the end of the world IF it is, just cut out the zinc.) Wish summat would stop this hissing in me ears. Horrible.