Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; Two AS Sub-groups?

that's an enormous presumption...arrogant......I'm right, you're non compliant.

I had no desire to attempt a "no starch" experience. I was trying to loose weight with a fashionable,
now somewhat discredited diet program. NOT one thing was fried...there was no "meat product"
contaminated with modified starch...Broiled, boiled or baked only...not a lick of processed foods.
In no way was this ,even then, seen as a balanced diet.stillman did not allow fruits, salads or vegies. NONE !

I did loose about a hundred and forty pounds...taking a great deal of wear and tear off the joints;
I only offered an anecdotal observation that a restricted food selection with very, very, very little
starch ( corn syrup in the ketchup) had NO effect at all at lessening inflammation for ME over a protracted
period of time. vegetarian tiger.

we're all different, some differenter than others.
alohaben

Hi Ben,

It may have been the cottage cheese that was the culprit. For myself, dairy causes pain that the starch causes in others. The only dairy I do now is goat cheese. So just a thought.

There is no drug stronger than a good attitude.

thanks, dear.

I actually became a chef later in life...I was a revolutionary political agitator at that time.
by the way, my old friend abbie hoffman was a great chef too.

My weight held steady between 180-200 lbs for years...till i had the little tummy problem and
dropped to 142lbs in April 2002. Until august of this year I just cringed in pain at the thought
of vinegar in or on anything...don't mention grapefruit.

I eat moderately well...the only salt in anything i eat, I put there. I like dairy- butter and cream.
I was a pastry chef for a while...so the dreaded bread, pies and cakes are on my agenda, except
that i had so little energy I haven't done much lately. Haven't made a bread in two years.

Generally cooks/chefs eat what they serve...if you work a lot, you eat more, and the weight
goes up a bit; in lean times you eat less and weight goes down a bit. Haven't worked, however,
since august 2002; and I'm very pleased I've been cooking for myself again lately. Use mostly
organic produce and meats if available; and except for desserts and coffee, rarely touch sugar.
mai e 'ai.
aloha Ben

Bilko,

Don't tell me that you don't like hugs and kisses

Cheers,
Sinta

Ben:

I still have my copy of Steal This Book

You are still not confirmed to be in the vegetarian tiger group, btw...you are just one of those who happen not to respond easily to diet, even if you were mostly actually NSD. There are myriad reasons for not responding besides a different AS mechanism. I do not respond so well to diet alone; I still require antibiotics--and the combination works great!

Best to You,
John

A punk stopped me on the street and said: "You got a light Mack?"

But Ben, strictly no fruit and veg for ten months? I thought the Stillman diet was for short periods only; what damage might you have done yourself?

This we prescribe though no physician . . .
Our doctors say this is no month to bleed. (Rich. II)

John,

I knew you didn't respond to the LSD (hence taking Ebringer's recommended low starch diet to the extremes of no starch at all) and I don't doubt you've mentioned this before and been open and honest about it all along, but for me that's the first time I've heard you mention that you don't even respond to eliminating all starch without concurrent antibiotic therapy!

I'd always imagined you dealt with AS without being reliant on meds/drugs at all, so I just felt the need to type a response.

For the sake of peace I must mention that I'm not intending to be funny or ironic and certainly not clever, it's just shattered my illusions and I'm somewhat taken aback. I do of course appreciate that from one perspective ( in one dimension? ;) concurrent antibiotics support the klebsiella pneumoniae theory and that nothing is as simplistic as we'd all prefer. I just never would have guessed. I realise also that I haven't actually made a point

Loz

"Loving what is right is different from hating what is wrong and feeling right about it." - Roy Masters

Loz,

John has explained on many occasions that the NSAIDs wrought such irreparable damage to his gut that he believes this allowed klebsiella to form sub-epithelial colonies, finding alternative food sources and producing a greater immunological response.

One might say that such patients are indeed a different sub-group in that medicine itself has made therapy so difficult; but that would be rather trivial.

This we prescribe though no physician . . .
Our doctors say this is no month to bleed. (Rich. II)

I do remember John theorising on NSAID damage, but I'm not familiar with the concept of 'sub-epithelial colonies' - what are they?

I didn't realise either that klebsiella can feed on other food sources as well as starch. What are those sources and shouldn't they be excluded too?

  Loz

"Loving what is right is different from hating what is wrong and feeling right about it." - Roy Masters

The epithelium referred to is the membrane lining the gut. Normally components of the immune system are secreted across which detect bacteria and cause the immune system to respond. Antibodies are secreted. But NSAIDs can damage this membrane, enabling klebs to spread beneath. Klebs can be cultured on other food sources (including meat apparently) but starch is the food type generally not efficiently digested in the small intestine and the klebs thrive on it where it enters the small bowel (lactose is also a problem with some). Dieting can reduce their numbers found in faeces by a factor of fifty, and the consequent lessening of the immune response gives remission in those with intact guts.

This we prescribe though no physician . . .
Our doctors say this is no month to bleed. (Rich. II)