Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; Not working

Well, I'm into my third week on the NSD (after three days of the apple diet) and with only one slip up on Easter, I have followed it religiously. I have not experienced any lessening in my condition at all.

I had an excruciatingly bad flare yesterday evening / last night that is still continuing, having eaten only:
breakfast: rashers and a Yakult
lunch / snacks: salami, lettuce, cheese, raisins, pear (starch tested)
dinner: chicken, fennel and spinach
vitamins / supplements (all starch tested): Omega 3, calcium, Vitamin E, Vitamin C, magnesium (I've ordered some others following feedback from a previous post but am still waiting for them to be delivered).

I don't think I'm prepared to give up dairy too, especially as this doesn't seem to be working anyway. Unbelievably, my stomach has also been really playing up and giving me a lot of pain since I started the diet (although I am diagnosed with IBS, I haven't had any symptoms in quite a while) and the pain and discomfort from that is merely adding to the AS pain...

I can't see that I am doing anything wrong as I iodine test anything doubtful (I did forget to test the Yakult yesterday, but I'm sure I read about it on here or in Carol Sinclair's book anyway).

...and, to top it all, I didn't lose so much as half a pound on the apple / water diet!!!!

I understand that if the disease has a real hold of you it might take some time for the diet to work, but most people who have experienced great results through the diet seem to have noticed some results almost immediately (which then got better as they progressed with the diet). I have friends who have done the Atkins diet (not the same, I know, but still, no carbs, more meat, eggs, etc) who claim that it really messed up their stomachs, and that they are still suffering the consequences a couple of years later...

Anyway, excuse the 'rant', but, from reading more on the boards, I am back to wondering whether the diet might only help a section of those affected with AS rather than being a 'cure all' solution.

I know I am being very impatient with this, but to give up my favourite foods in the world, i.e. fresh french bread, spuds, pasta and madiera cake has to have some payback to be worth it!

Hi Bleen,

Dairy was an issue for me... noticed no improvement until I tossed it. Supplements can be an issue as well... I have taken supplements that contain modifed starch in the capsule and set me off on a flare as well. There are a few brands I stick with that I know are starch free (Solgar is my favorite).

My motto - eat to live, not live to eat.

Tim

Hope is only a post away with KickAS.

No idea on the yakult.. never heard of it. However, saw Jan's reply on the probiotics... fair warning that some of these have caused me issues as well.

I was extremely strict at first... nothing fancy.... protein, fresh nonstarchy veggies and fruit. I believe that is why I saw benefits so fast, wanted to know it would work.

Tim

Hope is only a post away with KickAS.

Hi Bleen,
I suggest to forget about the Yakult. We should try to get as less bacteria in the gut as possible as any bacterium can give an immune response. Maybe not the specific AS response but anything that makes our body react will higher the pain in our disease. Another thing is not to overdo on supplements. Certainly iron supplements should be banned (unless one has severe anemia due to shortage in the food) as iron supports all bacteria to grow. Do not supplement while being on apple diet too. Just apples and water and maybe some tea is all I use. Once I supplemented with algae tablets to supply extra minerals during apple fast. It was the only time I noticed no improvement. Dairy is safer the more it is processed by bacteria so if you don't want to stop it then use older cheeses and certainly don't use milk as long as you don't know you can manage it, but use soy milk instead. Well that are about the tips I can think about at the moment. You sure are a challenge, hope you can manage to hold on a bit longer.
Gerard

"Tell me what kind of food you eat, and I will tell you what kind of man you are."
-Anthelme Brillat Savarin -

Things also got worse for me before they got better. I had to be reassured by my doctor quite a few times that he wasn't trying to kill me and that this was expected. It took quite a bit of faith in the beginning.

As for food, I found that I had a problem with milk, but not with cheese. Hard cheeses are the best for me when it comes to dairy.

I don't agree with the statement that you should eliminate as much bacteria as possible. In my experience you should look to add healthy flora rather than try and eliminate it all. Your intestines are not a vaccuum. Something is going to take up residence there whether you like it or not. Bacteria does help digest your food, after all. I supplemented rather regularly with probiotics when I first started out, and I still do from time to time.

I've never done the apple fast so I can't personally vouch for it's effectiveness. Two Products that really helped me detox were Ultra Clear Plus and Endefen. Both are made my Metagenics. http://www.metagenics.com

I sometimes order my Metagenics products from http://www.myhealthfirst.com . I think they're based in Florida. I am in no way affiliated with them other than being a customer. I have found that they have very good prices and free shipping orders over a certain amount.

I'm lucky to have a doctor that guides me on what I should be taking, so a lot of the guesswork has been taken off of my shoulders. I can't guarantee that anything I've done can help any of you, but I'm willing to offer my experiences in case I can help anyone.


Take Care.

Cody.

Hi all

Just a quick thanks for responding to my post. As I've said before, you really are mines of information and I really appreciate all of the advice / tips given.

OK, you've persuaded me: I'll stick with it for another two weeks, and will attempt to give up dairy for one week to see if it does make any difference.

I'll try not to doubt it in the meantime (or not publicly anyway!), and hopefully at the end I'll be another believer!!

Codias,
I don't doubt the use of probiotics but apart from live cultures as in yoghurt and sauerkraut I have never had any good reaction from probiotic supplements that are ready bought, quite the contrary actually, but maybe I never had the right ones. Anyway even lactic acid bacteria can trigger immune responses, certainly if the gut is compromised, it is dependant on the strain how strong that trigger is. I can't stand in for the Shirota strain in Yakult that it is harmless and I haven't seen anyone here with a good or bad reference to that particular product so I should play safe on it. I agree the intestines are not a vacuum and there should be a competition in there between the "good" and the "bad" bacteria. We certainly will never get rid of bacteria but we can try to reduce the over all mass of bacteria and Klebsiella with them, that can be measured by the amount of stool by depleting them from their energy source: starch. I think that is the essence of the low starch diet.
Gerard

"Tell me what kind of food you eat, and I will tell you what kind of man you are."
-Anthelme Brillat Savarin -

And Ebringer did find that even the healthy volunteers he used as controls, when placed on a low starch diet, had significantly lowered levels of antibodies (total serum IgA) in their blood samples. More gut bacteria, more stress on the immune system looking for weaknesses.

DOCTOR: Therein the patient
Must minister to himself.
MACBETH: Throw physic to the dogs, I'll none of it.

looks like you have been quite diligent. The reason I suggested in the last thread that it would be a good idea to try antibiotics or "Oxygen Therapy" is that it should have made it clear for you as to whether your inflammation is caused by gut bacteria or not...

Another method would be a fast, not an apple fast but a true fast without any food at all. A few months back after eating something off, I had pretty bad diarrhoea. Well to cut a long story short, my gut was cleaned out completely and I decided this was a good time to do a fast. I drank heaps and heaps of water and was pain free in a very short period of time. So next time I will probably start a fast with some laxatives. Every time I got hungry I just drank about 2 or 3 cups of water all at once and that seemed to quiet the hunger pretty effectively. The only thing you need for a fast is lots and lots of water, and a very tiny amount of honey every now and then.

If a fast works then you will at least know that the source of your inflammation is with food or gut bacteria..

just a thought,
z

"So long and thanks for all the fish" - Hitch Hikers Guide To The Galaxy