Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; Not working

Hi Bleen, sounds like they messed your gut up pretty bad. I had the problem of long term use of anti imflamatories which gave me the feeling at times, that I wasnt sue if the pain was in my back or my guts. It all started for me at the age of about 25, I went on all the normal meds and other things, but thankfully the NSD worked for me. Hang on in there, hopefully it is a matter of healing the gut before you can feel some relief. George

Hi Zark

According to Sinclair, you should avoid the same things for IBS as for AS: in a nutshell, starch! everything else should be fine.

Also, I was thinking I might give the hydrogen peroxide thing a go... It still seems a bit drastic, but I hear what you say about water at Lourdes, etc, containing the same levels naturally (and I could certainly do with some water with 'miraculous' properties at the moment!). I've been into a few chemists and they only appear to stock the 6% stuff and look at me like I'm mad when I ask if it's food grade! In what kind of shop do you buy yours?

Hey, Bleen:

Sorry about the yoghurt. Perhaps some health food stores there have starter you can culture yourself. Probiotics is a good option, but without the intestinal healing properties of the yoghurt.

I have had great results with peroxide, and recommend it, but the antibiotics I use are things like Cipro and tetracycline. If large colonies of Kp exist outside the tract, that is along the local supportive tissue and even the mesentery, AS will be independent of whatever is inside the intestines. In some cases--certainly my own--more aggressive elimination of the germ is required, and the Herx effect can be daunting, but the ultimate results spectacular. I am fortunate to live near the border, but some antibiotics can be ordered over the internet as "Fishcycline" and Fishzole (Flagyl-metronidazole).

Sure give the peroxide a go first and good luck with it!

John

"Ah but if somehow you could pack up your sorrows, and give them all to me--
You would lose them, but I know how to use them; give them all to me""
Pack Up Your Sorrows Richard Fariña and Pauline Marden

>> I've been into a few chemists and they only appear to stock the 6% stuff and look at
>>me like I'm mad when I ask if it's food grade! In what kind of shop do you buy yours?

Actually I am hesitant to use the peroxide too, mostly because of the additives. Manufacturers don't even have to list the additives, and yet they are there. I am also worried that someone will use too much peroxide and do themselves harm. Lately I am going to keep it in reserves for "emergency" use :-). I think it would be easier to get antibiotics at an aquarium then to find food grade peroxide.

...Weed, seed, and feed....
weed: that means kill off the weeds (harmful bacteria). That can be done through antibiotics or fasting
seed: use a probiotic (yoghurt, kefir, or capsules)
feed: i think they call these prebiotic foods. eg: eat pickled foods, and perhaps greens are a prebiotic?

Kefir is a great probiotic (some people spell it keffir?).. lots of beneficial bacteria in this. It is like having a never ending supply of yoghurt, all you have to do is feed it milk. Here is a link or two that should make it easier to find:
http://66.46.11.99/clarkson/Show/Clarkson/kefir/default.asp
http://www.rejoiceinlife.com/kefir/kefirlistEurope.php


"To live by medicine is to live horribly." - Carl Linnaeus, 1707-78

Hi John,
Is it ok if I throw a question in here? I take diflucan for a week or 10 days at a time, especially with antibiotics, then go off it for awhile. When I notice symptoms of candida I start up again, it seems to help my headaches and some ear fullness problems. Could this be the missing link for me? With all the fruit...too many sugars maybe? Interferring in the results from going NSD? As a side note, a few years back I noticed that I felt better when I took cipro as long as the yeast was kept in check. My dr. is pretty open maybe that would be a good direction to try. Thanks for all your posts, I always learn something. Peace&Light, Lori

Hi Bleen,

I did the NSD for one month with dairy and I did not feel any benifit from it other than feeling healthier. I too wish that I was one of the lucky ones who got the miricle cure from the diet. Mabey I would be if I stayted on it longer, however, I chose to give it up. Pain has caused me to go for the strong drugs. I feel as though at the moment this is my best choice. It is hard not to feel like a quiter for giving up, but go easy on yourself. I have spoken to several people with Rhematoid Arthritis who have been able to get relief from restricting foods from the nightshade family. They say that if they eat any of that stuff they can feel a change within a day. This helped me to justify to myself stopping the diet after a month of experimentation. Perhaps for now getting the pain under control with drugs is a good option for you too and then when you are feeling better and you reduce the meds you can try the diet again. I am sorry that you are in pain. It truly sucks, I hope that you get some relief soon. I made the Enbrel leap two days ago, if you would like I will keep intouch and let you know if it is helping or not. I agree with what you are saying about if you are going to take a med you may as well take the one that is going to get the job done the best. We have a saying here in Montana that goes, "If you are going to be a bear be a Grizzly!" I feel that it applies well here. All the best.

Howard

Howard

I see from a post on the general forum that you have now been diagnosed with ReA and not AS. If the new dx is right then diet could not really be expected to work. Though John may argue differently, and if you were HLA B27 +ve then it would be best to stay starch free as the ReA could develop into AS.

DOCTOR: Therein the patient
Must minister to himself.
MACBETH: Throw physic to the dogs, I'll none of it.

What?

Yeah, bilko--you are right. But the question should be: If you have a REACTIVE arthritis, why the heck is the doctor treating you with DMARDs instead of antibiotics?!!.

In our orientation, AS is the result of Klebsiella Reactive Arthritis (and should also be treated with antibiotics...in some cases, btw).

Reiter's Syndrome evolves into AS as a natural course of B27 disease. After two years the only difference is that AS caused by RS involves the knees more often, due to the location of the most active intestinal lesions.

So it is still very important to keep starch-free, however, the timeline to healing results may be much longer, with extra emphasis on eliminations required.

How's the tem in the Serpentine these days? and Any good rants from the soapbox?

Best Regards,
John



"Ah but if somehow you could pack up your sorrows, and give them all to me--
You would lose them, but I know how to use them; give them all to me""
Pack Up Your Sorrows Richard Fariña and Pauline Marden

Hi, Lori:

Sorry to take so long to respond--things are pretty slow for me while recuperating.

Yes, AS is certainly exacerbated by the yeast overgrowth, and whenever this has been the case diet did not seem to work as rapidly and sometimes not at all.

You know the downside of treating with diflucan, but it is a very good drug as far as it can affect intestinal involvement. Problem is the C. albicans is systemic and will come back. The fasting may not be the best way, either, but treatments using caprylic acid, colloidal silver, garlic, and probiotics have been very effective and you might consider doing major alternating cycles of probiotics/anti-candida---antibiotic therapy.

The Cipro is great against Kp, but will rapidly produce resistive strains if starch is not totally eliminated.

ALSO: The contribution to AS from smoking is considerable. I should post a smoking rant in the near future, but cut this out since you will reduce levels of healing vitC to zero and healing niacin to zero--just for starters; we cannot heal properly without intestinal blood flow. Smoking is certainly contributory to Crohn's Disease. Ok--and the smoke contains bad levels of cadmium, a known arthritogen. It does not mean that you will not heal; it will just take very much longer...life is too short!

Health to You,
John






"Ah but if somehow you could pack up your sorrows, and give them all to me--
You would lose them, but I know how to use them; give them all to me""
Pack Up Your Sorrows Richard Fariña and Pauline Marden

John - I daren't go near Speakers Corner these days for fear of the deja vu, making me feel old. In my youth it was Vietnam, now . . . though I do miss the guy who for many years walked up and down Oxford Street with placards warning against eating meat, the way to perdition; salvation was by way of beans and lentils :- the Serps is up to 56F/13C, the channel swimmers are out to play, & I'm feeling old. I can't keep up with them which is a pity, so many blonde chicks into the channel, what's wrong with the world?



. . . . . . . . . . . . . Friend hast thou none;
For thine own bowels which do call thee sire,
The mere effusion of thy proper loins,
Do curse the gout, serpigo, and the rheum
For ending thee no sooner. (M for M)