Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; HLA-B27 negative vs diet

Hello:

I'm a new member in this forum. I'm 32, and have AS since 25. Only diagnosed in February 2005.
I've been reading the various experiences on the LSD/NSD and I would like to ask if any of the membres on this forum can indicate me some litterature on this subject, but with special conection on the AS people wich are HLA-B27 negative, wich is my case. I've read I believe almost everything in the KickAS site, but I would like to read more stuff (There is nothing about the subject in portuguese, wich is my language, but I read english, french and spanish with no problem).
I'thinking in the possibility of trying the LSD, but have many doubts about it. I eat everything, and specially starchy foods. I think I could cut off with potatos, pasta and rice with no problem. But not the bread... Oh, and the cakes... I just love them!! Besides, it would be difficult to tell my mum not to cook those foods. They are a part of our family menu everyday. And its also difficult to find what to eat out, when I go to work. Here in Portugal most of the foods we find have a lot of starch, and doing meals just with vegetables, fruits, meat or fish is expensive, because you have to go to restaurants. And if you want something less expensive you go to a cafe and eat a soup, a sandwich, or something like this.

Thank you for any help and conseils

Zélia

Hi Zelia,

For me personally Low Starch does not help... so if I was eating bread and cakes I would see no results from changing diet. Still too much starch.

So you may be at a dilema if unwilling to give up cakes and bread if you want to see results from diet... the toughest part of the diet is the discipline required... it is not like cheating on a test at school and getting away with it. If you are sensitive as I am to the starch, your body tells you from arthritis pain.

Yes... eating out is more difficult, but I can always find something on the menus that I can eat, just have to be more cautious.

Take care and best wishes on the direction you choose,

Tim

Zelia,

the fact that you are B27 neg is not critical. If you have AS then you almost certainly have one of the HLA types that cross-react with the B27 type. Which is to say that the molecule coded for is very similar to the B27 and behaves the same way.

And I just know you love the cakes and bread - that's why you have AS!

Hi Zelia,
Welcome to kickas!
I find that a gluten free diet works as well for me as a starch free diet, and it's easier for me to do. Although that still isn't going to be good news for you considering you'd still have to cut out the cakes!
Take care,
Megan

The philosophy of denial is a hard one for each of us.
The politics of pain made it a simple choice for me - i took control of my own body, my own medication, my own condition - my very own AS.
maybe i wrested control away from my stomach
or was it my taste buds?
or was it my pleasure centre?
From three minutes of agony needed to roll over on an exercise mat i now have no-one believing that i have a crippling, deforming inflammatory complaint at all...
As a bachelor, i had to cut out pasta - the mainstay of every cook and run culinarily challenged kitchen wiz. It was the easiest food to make at sea on the yacht.
Now it's just veggies and flesh and don't mind the fat.
Double helpings of veggies and once i was better
Rice cakes and rice and rice noodles and rice wraps
Goodbye pasta goodbye pizza goodbye all forms of gluten and glue.

B27 negative - remember the high false negative rate.
Starch fed Kp can cause gut inflammation and gut damage in everyone - other bugs and foodstuffs may cause joint pain and inflam and apparent sensitivities.
See how you go, it costs nothing but a change of attitude.

Thank you for your posts.

The past few days I've been trying to avoid starchy foods. Can't say it feels better, but I'll wait to see.
Still have many doubts.
Bilko, you have said that some HLA types can cross-react with the B27 type. Well, I've been wondering about this. When I did my HLA tests, the result was, beside the negative B27, positive for: A2 ; A24(9) and B44(12).
I asked my rheumy what they ment, but he just said they were not important, and they could only interest in genetic studies.
I was frustated with his answer. Done a little research myself on the net, but didn't find anything helpfull. Do any of you guys know something about this HLA types? Do you have any of them or others?

About the influence of food in the gut, I've also been wondering... I suffer from constipation since childwood. Never really bodered me. But in the last years I notice that my recto is most time inflamated (red and itchy skin). I had a anal fissure this year, and the result was three c. albicans episodes in the last 3 months . I know sweet food can make it worst, so I've tried to avoid it till the candidiase passed.

And another question: if i cut out the cakes (oh!... that hurts... ), can a LSD still keep some tipe of sweet foods? Like puddings made with no flour, or mousse, ice-creams... And what about cookies made with some kinds of nuts? Does sugar makes arthritis worse? And the edulcorants? Are they safe in a LSD?

Sorry for all the questions, but I really like to be a well informed person, before make decisions.

Zélia

Hi Zelia,
I can't answer all of your questions but I can try having a go at a few of them. The fact that you are craving starchy and high carbohydrate foods such as breads, pastas, and sweets, means that your body's metabolism is out of balance. These types of foods are processed relatively quickly by the body into simple sugars that quickly get into the bloodstream, and make you feel energetic for a short period of time. Then, you will find yourself feeling tired, as the sugars run out, and the cravings start all over again, so you eat more of them. Your body is having these cravings because you are actually LOW on calcium. People with these types of diseases frequently are. The blood has to have a certain level of calcium for the body to function properly. Blood is filtered through the kidneys. When the kidneys see the calcium levels are too low, they tell the body to pull that missing calcium RIGHT OUT OF YOUR BONES. Now, the brain intreprets this sensation not as "I'm hungry for a high calcium snack" but as "I'm REALLY hungry, and I want something SWEET and STARCHY, right now!!!" So you find yourself eating bread and pasta and cake and cookies and all sorts of junk to try to make yourself feel better. A few hours later, you feel starved again.
Does this sound familiar?
Also, many women, in an effort to not gain weight, make the mistake of trying to eat a high carbohydrate, low fat diet. Then they wonder why they are hungry all the time...well, they aren't getting enough FAT in their diets to act as a long acting, slow burning fuel. When you eat enough fat in this type of diet, you don't get the intense hunger pangs anymore and if you take your calcium supplements religiously, you shouldn't get the intense cravings for bread and pastas anymore either.

In addition to taking calcium, about 1000 to 1500 mg a day, you should be taking magnesium and vitamin D also, which are very important helpers to the body to making the calcium WORK for you.

As for sweet foods, usually on a very low starch or almost no starch diet, one is eating so much fruit in fresh and dried form that most remaining sweet cravings can be easily satisfied by that. Dried fruit such as dates, raisins, pineapple, cranberries, figs, cherries, etc, not only taste very good but are also very sweet.

It is possible to make custards with no flour if you use just eggs and milk, or eggs and whipped tofu, and gelatin can also be added for a thickener. Every Thanksgiving I make a pumpkin pudding with eggs, soymilk, canned pumpkin puree, spices, and honey for sweetener, with roasted pecans on top, and I don't miss pie at all.
Ice cream is an individual thing. It is possible to find some forms of ice cream made commercially without starch, but ice cream type items such as fruit sorbets can also be made at home in an ice-cream maker. I don't bother to make cookies ( When I see the word "COOKIE" , I don't get the normal reaction most people get, they salivate, instead, I think "FAT BALL" that is not worth eating.) But I do grind almonds in the blender and make almond meal bread, and I've even made almond meal chocolate brownies.
My typical sweet treat is dark chocolate.

I have to be careful not to eat too much sweets, as I have found that if I am craving them too much, it really means that I either forgot to take my calcium supplements that morning, or that I really need to eat a healthy serving of vegetables with olive oil. Too much sugar is not healthy for ANYBODY, let alone someone with auto-immune disease. Eating too much makes me feel tired and yucky.

I am not sure what you mean by "edulcorants". ???

I hope this helps.

Zelia - looking back at some of DragonSlayer's posts on this subject the most common HLA marker apart from B27 is the HLA B7 CREG (cross-reactive group), also HLA B60/61/39/35 & HLA DRB1.

Wind-rider, all of it sounds a lot familiar to me. And I do think you are right about the things that can cause my apetite for sweet things.
When I said edulcorants, well it's how we call in Portugal the sweateners (is that how you say it in english?) - aspartame, acessulfame-K, sacarin, neo-hesperidin, and so on (substitutes for sugar).
By the way, eating small amounts of sugar its not that bad, is it?
Now... good news. I am at 4 days on LSD. No hungry attacks so far. Not to much pain too.
Been eating lots of fruits and vegetables, and not worring at all with fat food. But I'm asking myself if the lack of carbohydrates will be a problem. I know some fruits and vegetables have it, but I don't know the percentages. Does anyone know more about this?
And coconut, is it safe in all its forms? I like coconut made with eggs and sugar (no flour!) cooked in the hoven.
On last questions. I'm kind of adicted to coffe. Is it O.K. to drink two cups a day with sugar?

Zélia

Hi Zelia,

I would say that most of us eat some sugar. Unless you're eating huge amounts which really isn't good for anybody, it really shouldn't interfere with your progress on the diet. A sweet treat helps me stick to the diet when I feel that I'm giving up so many other things.

Also, in regard to carbohydrates, if you are eating plenty of fresh fruits and vegetables, you really will get enough carbohydrates. I feel that my blood sugar and energy levels are more stable when I stick to the diet, and I find that when I eat wheat and other no-nos I feel bloated, lethargic, and my blood sugar is much less stable.

I do think coconut is safe in every form -- I haven't heard of anyone reacting to it. Your coconut, eggs and sugar sounds pretty yummy to me!

I doubt that coffee would be a problem -- especially just 2 cups a day. That sounds pretty reasonable to me for someone who is addicted!! I'm not a big coffee drinker because I prefer it with syrups, milk, cream, etc. -- and I usually try to stay away from dairy.

Congratulations for working on the diet. I hope it continues to go well.

Paula