Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; NSD and pain management

Hi and Happy New Year to all!

I was diagnosed with AS in July, 2007. I’d been suffering from a lower back pain for a year and a half then, unbearable in the mornings, better during the day. I started the NSD diet in July. My pain didn’t improve much but it did stop progressing as it had been for the past year and a half. However, the pain spread to my knuckles, a finger and my knees. My shoulders and neck are constantly inflamed. I stopped all dairy a month ago and noticed great improvement in terms of the lower-back pain. But I do still have pain, which fluctuates in intensity. I read people’s success stories, and I just want to ask if others following the diet have become entirely pain-free and if so, what could I be doing wrong? I just don’t know what to expect. I never tried the 3 day apple diet because I’m confused on whether apples are okay to eat or not. In one of the documents it says that only cooked apples are okay so I haven’t dared try the apple diet.

By the way, when I asked my rheumatologist (at the renowned Hospital for Special surgery in NYC) about the NSD she told me that there was no evidence to support it??? Why is it that most physicians are skeptical about it? Do you know of any criticism of the NSD treatment?

Thanks!

Best wishes,
Daniela

WELCOME, Daniela:

I recently posted a response to Karen, regarding AP, but I think that there are many more natural things that we can do, in addition to the Cayce 3-Day Apple Diet.

Almost any monodiet works well in reducing inflammation, and I especially like cherries in season. The apples are easy (the 'redder' the better), but the diet itself is difficult. Blueberries, cranberries, pineapples, mangosteen and lychee fruit (both usually available in Asian markets) all have good properties.

The thing is, if you have active inflammation, it is very important to get rid of this as soon as possible, and if diet alone is not doing this for you, beyond shifting your diet and troubleshooting it here, the next step is drugs and my preference is antibiotics because they, like diet, treat the cause.

I have experimented with anti-inflammatory "foods" and supplements, and perhaps this is now appropriate to review.

The best thing for me was fresh wheatgrass juice. I drank about 6oz at a time on an empty stomach, three days in a row usually got me out of a flare. This, especially in conjunction with vitD from sunlight, but perhaps a natural light source or actual supplement would be adequate.

Next are the EFAs and the best thing to take is borage seed oil at up to 2g nightly--immediately before retiring. During the day, flaxseed oil, EVOliveOil, and cod liver oils are all very good to take--even over 11g total.

On top of this, good amounts of vitC are important. Wallach recommends 'to bowel tolerance,' which means well over 10g until we need to race to the bathroom. In addition to the anti-inflammatory property of this, EFAs, and vitD, they have special intestinal healing properties.

I am almost certain that the raw sea cucumber I tried (a Japanese "delicacy") lowered inflammation...but the gag factor was quite severe. It is now available in dessicated capsule form.

Ginger tea, made strong and with the root removed, has some good properties both for nausea and inflammation.

Next time I get into the 'creeping flare' I get when eating dairy, I might try to down a can of that cranberry sauce that looks so unappealing...

I have taken 2-5g daily Indian frankincense (guggol--or there is another name more common) with moderate improvements. Some people have had good results with MSM, but perhaps I did not take enough. Cabbage juice, sauerkraut, fresh celery juice, and whole beet juices each have some anti-inflammatory action.

Another concept is that we get comfortable with certain foods, and eating too much of these foods create a 'dross' condition where we are unable to properly eliminate certain components or metabolic by-products. This factor alone is pro-arthritic, and we need to break out of our dietary entrenchments and eat still starch-free (non-indicating) natural foods that we don't normally eat, and learn to like new things, or experiment with different ways to prepare things. Raw foods, especially, are important for their enzymes--I sometimes eat alfalfa sprouts in a soup with the cold contrasting the soup with cooked-to-death veggies; we need enzymes and friendly bacteria (probiotics). Other times I eat bitter melon (Asian stores again), and will go out of my way to eat tabouli--and mix fresh cilantro along with the parsley and try to eliminate most of the bulger (which is usually in such small amounts that it does not create a problem). Normally, I am not much of a fungivore, but I force myself to eat mushrooms at times, and even drink green tea.

It is better to keep experimenting with diet, and keep a journal--if your symptoms change at all. We can usually tell pretty rapidly--within a day or two--whether or not we are having any impact on the AS.

I am sorry that you have 'stalled-out' but glad you were able to get more comfortable thanks to the NSD, and I hope that something mentioned here will be of help to You,
John

After 6 months of misery when celebrex(200mg daily -dr wouldn't let me take more due to hbp) was doing nothing for me, I read about the NSD. I bought Carol Sinclair' book and stuck to the diet rigidly. I felt it was all or nothing. I felt improvement after 2 weeks but it took nearly 3 months to become virtually painfree and able to walk easily and get back swimming. I reintroduced starch before Xmas and have been pleasantly surprised to remain well. In the meantime I have switched to Voltarol 150 mg daily so that is probably helping. NSD was the most difficult thing I have done for a long time but definitely worth a try to push the AS into remission. I saw a rheumatologist just before Xmas and told her about how the NSD had helped me. She didn't dismiss it. She explained that the problem is that there have been no clinical studies on this and besides which she felt it was not sustainable longterm for most people. I had to agree with her on that. Good luck with the diet.

Thanks John & maryk,

I will try the mono diet and add some anti-inflammatory supplements. I’m not taking any meds because my husband and I are trying for a baby. I guess that would rule out antibiotics as well.

If I may say, this site is amazing! If it weren’t for the Internet, I would have never even heard of NSD. In fact, I had diagnosed myself with AS a year before the doctors finally did.
Thanks,
daniela

Hi Daniela,

Welcome to Kickas!

For the most part I am pain free... but I will cheat now and again on the diet and at times will have some stiffness. I cheat with what I call "fringe foods" that cause me a bit of stiffness. Some of those foods are ice cream, eggplant, cheese, pistachios...

I did not need the 3 days of apples to clear me of pain entirely... but I am a big believer that it is of great help, for me personally in assimilation of food (improved digestion).

Couple of items...
1. How many processed foods are you eating? If quite a bit, this is a lot of opportunities for a modified starch of some sort to sneak into diet.

2. Are you taking any supplements? I have taken supplements at times that have caused problems.

3. List out your foods here for us... at times someone is unaware of something that may indeed be somewhat starchy.

Hope you can find some answers to the stiffness and the diet continues to improve.

Tim

Thanks Tim!

Here is pretty much my menu:

Breakfast 1: Any of the following or in combination: Berries, pineapple, honeydew melon, cantaloupe, blueberries

Breakfast 2: Omelette with onions, mushrooms, spinach, olives. Or sometimes I’ll have eggs and frozen sausage patties (turkey or pork)

Lunch: Salads (cucumber, spinach, onions, roasted peppers, olives, pine nuts, or walnuts, palms of heart, artichoke)
with Tuna salad (with real Mayonnaise)
or with Smoked Salmon

Soups that I make—chicken and onion.

Dinner: Stir-fry with veggies (red peppers, onions, garlic, sno-peas, pineapple) and chicken/beef
Or grilled fish/chicken/steak with mushrooms and spinach/broccoli, squash

I snack on nuts (pine and walnuts), seeds (pumpkin, sunflower), raisins, and dark chocolate

I drink herbal tea with honey and lemon, decaf coffee (often I use Soy milk for cappuccino), green tea

Processed foods:

Sugar (brown or in the raw), frozen sausage, mayo, smoked salmon.

Soy milk. I sometimes use soy sauce (Tamari) for marinating.

I put carrots in soups but otherwise I avoid them because I’m not sure if they are okay. I also stopped tomatoes and eggplant. I use pickled hearts of palm and artichokes and roasted peppers.


THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP!

Hi Daniela and welcome - I have been able to eliminate inflamation in my sacrum by following the NSD. I then went one step further by eliminating all sugars (dairy, fruit, etc), which ended up eliminating the pain and stiffness in the neck and shoulders, which turned out to be due to fungus/Candida.

Keep a food journal, and test all your foods with iodine in the beginning. I now feel best when I stick to M.O.V.E. (Meats/fish, Oils - coconut, butter, Vegetables and Eggs.)

Hey Daniela,

Quite a list... Chelsea already reviewed pretty well, but I will add my comments as well. She mentions iodine, several do use it, I do not since I was able to get to a pain free state and I can now "listen" to my body as it reacts.



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Breakfast 1: Any of the following or in combination: Berries, pineapple, honeydew melon, cantaloupe, blueberries

I have not had any issues with any of these foods. But if I have eaten too much sugar, I developed candidas (AS symptoms)... but I was eating too much honey as my source of sugar.

Breakfast 2: Omelette with onions, mushrooms, spinach, olives. Or sometimes I’ll have eggs and frozen sausage patties (turkey or pork)

Mushrooms can be an issue, it depends and onions (as well as asparagus) for some are issues since they have FOS (accornym for a food source for bacteria). I have no issues with onions or asparagus myself. The turkey/pork sausage patties caused me issues early on with my diet... they contained modified starch. I had to find a brand of turkey sausage links at Trader Joe's.

Lunch: Salads (cucumber, spinach, onions, roasted peppers, olives, pine nuts, or walnuts, palms of heart, artichoke)
with Tuna salad (with real Mayonnaise)
or with Smoked Salmon

I have issues with heart of palms (as they are called here) and I believe artichoke can be troublesome. I would also mention the Mayonnaise brand here for others to look over... I stay away from because processed foods tend to be a problem... I worked for a processed cheese manufacturer and know what "small items" make it to product at times but not on label.

Soups that I make—chicken and onion.

No new comments

Dinner: Stir-fry with veggies (red peppers, onions, garlic, sno-peas, pineapple) and chicken/beef
Or grilled fish/chicken/steak with mushrooms and spinach/broccoli, squash

I react to sno-peas if I recall correctly and what variety of squash? I can have zucinni and yellow squash... most others will cause some stiffness.

I snack on nuts (pine and walnuts), seeds (pumpkin, sunflower), raisins, and dark chocolate

I react to sunflower seeds... love them, but react. Pumpkin for me were OK. Dark chocolate I love, but can not have too much.

I drink herbal tea with honey and lemon, decaf coffee (often I use Soy milk for cappuccino), green tea

I do not trust Soy Milk myself... I think there are some here that drink coffee. I drink Mate all the time (similar to green tea) and drank some herbal teas in the states. I have to be careful with honey personally.

I put carrots in soups but otherwise I avoid them because I’m not sure if they are okay. I also stopped tomatoes and eggplant. I use pickled hearts of palm and artichokes and roasted peppers.

I have never had issues with carrots, I know others have. I do have tomatoes all the time and SOME eggplant, if I overdo the eggplant I can feel it. Love peppers, but know hearts of palm are an issue (my wife loves them).

Hope this helps out. The diet can be confusing.... everyone is a bit different with diet. For me, I went very basic first and eliminated a lot of foods since I wanted to know if it worked. Then I slowly added food back to my diet.

Best to you,

Tim

Thank you all for your great comments! The Candida issue as a result of sugar is new to me. Is there anything left that we can eat? I have lost so much weight already, I can't imagine throwing out the honey and chocolate. But I will have to at least try. Thanks again everyone.