Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives Alternatives and ALCHEMISTS Does LDN reduce CRP

Hi,
I've read with great interest the good results achieved with LDN with reducing pain but I was wondering if it had reduced anyone's CRP or ESR levels. My husband can't bring his down and even with being on Prednisone (10ml) his levels are always between 80-110. He will being seeing a Biologics specialist in a month and has started doing the preliminary tests for that. Unfortunately we have also booked our flights to leave NZ in December so I suspect they will not give him the Biologics until we return in early Feb. Anyway I was thinking that to try LDN while waiting, may work. I was wondering if to start on Biologics that you would need to be off LDN for a certain time- or is it not an issue. I'm guessing it can be taken with Prednisone. I really would appreciate any input.

Thank you,
Emily

I'm going to take a stab at this without 100% certainty: CRP and ESR measures the level of inflammation in the body. LDN enhances the immune system so it does not attack and inflame parts of the body. Therefore no attacking means no inflammation means low low ESR and CRP. I'm sure if theres something else causing inflammation, it wouldn't lower the levels (i.e. injury)

Without doubt a LSD or better a NSD will lower CRP.
My ESR at worst was only about 40 and CRP only about 25 so nothing compared to your husband. Being in Australia I was not bad enough to be considered eligible for Biologics so had to work my way through Sulphasalazyne and lastly Methotrexate. The MTX did lower ESR and CRP but had terrible side effects of nausea and diarrohea and symptoms wise did very little. All the time I continued taking Celebrex daily which was the only drug that bought any real relief. I eventully abandoned MTX and Celebrex THE DAY I started LSD and three months later felt relatively great - ESR had come back to 12 and CRP <1.
If I were you I'd start NSD today.
A LSD or NSD in combination with a Biologic would be better still.
I look to other posters who know about Biologics to say whether there's any reason Biologics can't be combined with a LSD / NSD.
Regards David

My CRP went from 46 to 2. My ESR is 1. This was from April to October. NSD and omega three capsules. I am on no meds at all. Pain levels are 10% of what they were, I even spent five long days riding my mules during October. It is not easy at first but I have pretty much forgot what is like to eat the old way. Did eat a bunch of chili and cornbread the other day and oh boy I could hardly move. Good luck.
Darrel.

LDN can't be taken with immunosuppressing drugs- prednisone and/or biologics cannot be taken with LDN They work in opposite ways.

Hi emily

I think a couple of your responding posters think LDN is the same as the low starch diet or LSD which it is not.

Now I have been on LDN for almost 1.5 years now. I can say my CRP and ESR did come down some. It came down more on LDN then it ever did on the low starch or no starch diet btw. My ESR went from the 80's to about 55-60 and my crp fell from around 9 to 4.5 the last time I did blood work. For me LDN helped quite a bit and I felt better but it was not enough.

I am now on Simponi (tnf blocker) and I feel good. Now I have always read what moosekick posted about LDN and the immune system but I find that statement very vague. which parts of the immune system does it elevate? obviously not the part causing inflammation but perhaps IL 10 , or IL 27 which tend to help control inflammation. I think the info on what LDN really does it pretty sparse.

I got the idea on the cytokines (IL) from a Doc who is running tests on LDN and autistic children and she thinks it actually stimulates the anti-inflammatory areas of the immune system. She thinks it would be OK to take LDN with a TNF since they are working on very different parts of the immune system and should not interfere with each other. She would not take it with Sulfasalazine, prednisone, or MTX since those supress a much broader part of the immune system, including the anti-inflammatory cytokines, than the TNF drugs do and they may work against each other in that case.

SO I am trying my LDN with simponi for a month to see what happens. Here is to totally getting back to normal If I see less of a response from the simponi I will drop the LDN.


best of luck

please do let us know how it goes. i for one would be very interested.

I said enhances, not elevate. All my sources are the same that anyone else has, except I'm now a part of the LDN yahoo group to get all the info I can, as I am on a hunt to get the drug. They seem to believe that you can't take the suppressant drugs with LDN.

You are an intelligent guy who is obviously farther along the LDN path than I am so I would assume your experience could prove many people wrong!

Thanks for the info and I look forward to seeing how you do!

I was part of that LDN group for about a year and that was the general thought. There are some interesting discussion there. I still get the emails but haven't logged on in awhile.

I don't think it is a matter of proving anyone wrong but rather of finding out how the drug really works. It is so understudied and the immune system is so complex.

I think some of their advice is given on just partial info and older observations from the founding Doc when the TNF drugs were not on the market yet. I smell possible assumptions here and little real hard scientific data.

Hi Steve and all posters.
Your right! I didn't read the original post carefully enough and just read LDN as LSD - must have dyslexia or something.
Regret poking my nose in where it doesn't below.
Cheers all
David P
Now I'll have to go to Wikipedia and find out what LDN is.
Sorry again!!!