Kickas.org Forums Ankylosing Spondylitis General Discussion #1 AS Web Support Group Just watched Sicko

I also saw Moore's most recent film: "Capitalism: A Love Story" and for those of you who have been avoid seeing his movies, thinking they are too liberal. you might like this one.

He makes the point repeatedly our Secretetary of the Treasury, and other people that are at the center of our financial administration, have strong ties to Wall Street's Goldman Sachs, a firm that was one the worst disasters of the the recent recession, one of the ones that had the biggest bailouts

He shows how that came to be, a true conspiracy. For those of us who had watched "Fahrenheit 911", and "Sicko" and were now hoping to return to lighter movies like "Roger & Me", well, we were sadly disappointed. Moore did not paint our times as much fun at all, and made the case how there are certainly people on the inside, who are businessmen first, and representatives of our country second-

To those of you wondering about the thought that insurance companies might deny you coverage if you're overweight or smoke, you might find this article from Time Magazine interesting:

Fat Fees and Smoker Surcharges: Tough-Love Health Incentives

Warm hugs,

The fallacy that smokers are more expensive to insurance companies, is quite simply a lie.

My mother died at 71, not as young as yours, but still relatively young. She had lung cancer from smoking all her life. Medicare paid for her hospice treatment and would have paid for her chemo and surgeries if she had chosen aggressive treatment for a condition that was still going to kill her anyway. She did not, and she died at home. My grandmother on the other hand lived to be 85, spent the last 4 years of her life confined to a bed with home health care, because of advanced osteoarthritis. She also had high blood pressure that had to be continually treated. She was on at least 10 different medications at the time of her death (in a hospital, by the way, for the last month of her life because she had a stroke).

So lets review, my mother died 14 years earlier, only had hospice care for 3 weeks, and died at home. My grandmother continued to need medical care for and additional 14 years, that medicare and private supplemental insurance had to cover. During that time, she was on countless meds for osteoarthitis, hypertension, heart disease, anxiety, depresssion, and all the normal illnesses a 71-85 year old suffers regularly without having ever smoked. She also had several hospitilizations in her last years for falls (before she became bedridden) and for blackouts caused by her high blood pressure.

I know mine is just a single example, but your mother died even earlier. You don't say if it was smoking related, but the truth of the matter is that smokers, on average, die much younger than non smokers. The insurance industry simply perpetrates the myth that they cost more to insure, because smokers are an easy scapegoat, and an easy way to get more income by charging higher premiums. But there is simply no way that a smoker who even has surgery and chemo can cost as much to insure as someone who lives 15-40 more years and has all the normal health costs of growing old. It is not possible, especially since the average time from diagnosis to death with lung cancer is somewhere around 2 years. Two years of agressive cancer treatment does not equal 20 years of elderly health care. I know, my wife is a Clinical Supervisor for Home Health and Hospice.

And let me just clarify... I am an ex-smoker (two years now), who has no intention of ever picking up another cancer stick. The only industry more evil than the insurance one is the tobacco one. But truth is truth.

Now HOW REASONABLE is it that a for-profit organization would just perpetuate myths so they can lose an opportunity to make money?!! Such a statement is patently absurd.

I remember there was a small construction company that was self-insured. 26 employees in a typical year. The secretary whom everyone just adored got cancer from her smoking habit and her care, which extended but did not save her life, tanked the entire company. 25 people out of work and another company belly-up thanks to one smoker. FACTS are tough things to negotiate around.

The primary cause of my mother's death was smoking, but she would not have died quite so early had she not had AS. She was one of the lucky ones who die suddenly instead of being tortured by lung cancer and being an RN, I'm sure she would have dutifully taken those chemo treatments.

Insurance companies employ statisticians keen in actuarial science--and they look at the hard numbers and decide that smokers cost them enough extra cash that they either refuse to insure them or charge them a considerable premium for their habit--which is not and should never be considered a "pre-existing condition." So, if smokers actually save them money, why do they charge them more! Maybe we need to hire those experts in statistics and get them to run the numbers again and start our own insurance company for smokers--we could make a fortune--are YOU ready to invest? If insurance companies are evil, what is YOUR solution?

The FACT is that nobody in USA is forced to buy insurance--YET. And I know plenty of people who just pay as they go and like it that way. Some even post bonds instead of carrying auto insurance; they also own plenty of insurance company stock but don't patronize them.

I agree that the tobacco industry is evil--putting ammonia in cigarettes to make the nicotine many times more addictive (more even than heroin according to some experts) is a very evil act and also knowingly covering up the harmful effects of their products, perhaps that is even more evil, but to compare them with insurance companies?!!

My smoking president has tried to demonize bankers now--are they evil? What about lawyers? He never mentions them!! Oh yeah, he is a smoking lawyer... And unions? How about the maffia, are they evil? Like maybe the Daley Machine? Insurance companies are WAY DOWN my list of our evils--something far below congress even.

CONGRATULATIONS on being smoke-free for two years, Johnny, I am sure that Your new family appreciates Your discipline,

Regards,
John

Since the insurance industry is not evil, it is funny that

-loads of us AS-ers have had to battle for years to get medications that have changed our lives. God forbid that we suffer for years in pain.

-that my insurance company continued to charge me higher premiums for smoking, even though they refused to pay for the medication that finally helped me break the habit. They really can have it both ways.

-that the doctor of one of my friends who went for a lap-band consultation told him to come back when he had the 'proper' comorbid condition along with his obesity, be it hypertension, degenerative arthritis, heart disease, or diabetes, as required by his insurance company. God forbid that he might die first.

-that most private insurers refuse to treat any mental illness as a true illness or to pay for any treatment thereof.

-that most private insurers rufuse to pay for any E.D. medications, since disease of that system is not really a disease. I guess that system is not really a bodily system either.

-that insurance companies can arbitrarily decide which medications to pay for and even which doctors and hospitals one can use. My wife was told that she had to have a particular surgery in one of her company's hospitals because she had their insurance. The closest of her company's hospitals that offered the procedure was over 300 miles from our home. That's why she is now insured by my insurance that is now saying that because of budget cuts it may eleminate or charge full price for family coverage for any spouses who can get insurance at their own workplace. I guess if that had been the case then, we would have had to have her have surgery 300 miles away from home.

Evil (from Merriam Webster's Online Dictionary): "1. a : morally reprehensible" I suppose none of the former cases are morally reprehensible.

And thanks for the the congrats on quitting smoking. It was not easy. I do miss this kind of discussion. That was what made me love KA so much in the first place!

James, James, James

Remember this is a man who makes money on causing controversy.


No, I've never had an insurance company tell me I can't have a med. Sometimes you need to prove that you are intolerant of the generic or you may have to try another less expensive one first. Sometimes you need pre-approval; like with the TNF's - they are expensive and obviously the insurance co is making sure that the med fits the diagnosis.

I don't know if an insurer can dencline due to weight or height - I don't think so... Here's the thing about insurance here. So you are 18 or 22 and out of school, You get a job and if you are smart youtake the company health insurance. You may switch jobs many times over the next ten years but you never let insurance lapse. You always get a "certificate of insurability" when you leave one job for another and then you don't have any issues with insurance. If you become sick and can't work - then you can use the insurance (that you hopefully took out) for disabiltity and then there's COBRA if you can't work or lose your job and you pay for the insurance from the last employer and it lasts 6-12 months. Once you've exhausted all that then you have to get insurance on your own. Hopefully you have applied for SSDI during this time and it take a long time to get it...there is a lapse there for sick people.

Life insurance can be denied due to weight and complications of obesity. Life ins can be denied for illness too.

I don't know about being turned away from a hospital. I think it depends on the hospital and what their policies are. Most hospitals have money in their budgets for caring for the uninsured.

My Dad always said "don't believe anything you hear and only 1/2of what you read" I think that's a good advice for any Micheal Moor stuff.

ahh if only every job offered insurance. Frankly many do not any more and more companies are dropping it. If you already have AS at 18 well you can't buy an individual policy as you will be uninsurable. Forget about starting your own small business since insurance won't be an option there either for you.

Frankly I believe the model of employer providing insurance is about to totally break down and already has for many in the US.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/16/business/economy/16leonhardt.html

Hi Jewelz x 3,

My Dad always told me that where there is smoke there is fire....

I'm seeing a lot of people getting burnt.

James

Were not perfect, the system needs work. But I don't think anyone else is doing it any better. All the models from different countries have their issues too.

It's hard to give every possible scenario in a brief post. I recounted a synopsis of my experience and those within my friends/family.

I will say Drizzit, that my sisters kid (who has an autoimmune disease) got personal health insurance, on her own, after college. She got her certificate of insurability from her parents insurance and got her own policy first thing. Expensive; but it would be more expensive with out it. She has Lupus which in the insurance world is rated worse than AS.