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I think my kefir is sick or maybe just sensitive to exactly what it was fed previously so i'll obtain a different strand even though it's product is fine.
The thing about leaving things to ferment is time. All the enzymes produced by the yeasts and bacteria can actually work their way down those long glucose chains and become lactic acid, some small sugars or other acids.
As discusssed with Krishna the sprouting and germinating changes the starches but also the lectins which have the protective role. Sure we were designed to eat plant food, but small wonder we prefer fruit to the seed. Some seeds (nuts) are of course exceptionally good food for us, i suppose it takes all types of mechanisms in nature.
As you say plants are sometimes well focused on protection via inedibility, i shouldn't buy into a veggie or meat argument - i'm a devout omnivore. Fast food is either ripe fruit or a live raw fish. Storage food is hands down to plants rather than green flesh. But nothing seems to have the value of good freshly killed meat for sustenance, it is all one big complement. We're all somewhere between eskimo and vegan.


Ted

Just adding this as it wraps up the sauerkraut (choucret) process so well and also gives pH so it is obvious that stomach pH of 2 is no problem for final lactobacillus sp.
SAUERKRAUT
Sauerkraut is produced from the fermentation of cabbage by a group of bacteria that produce mostly LACTIC ACID as an end product of the metabolism of the nutrients in the juices of the cabbage. The bacteria involved are Leuconostoc sp. and Lactobacillus sp. The "sp." refers to the fact that many strains of these organisms exist and each one produces sauerkraut with a slightly different flavor; much like the different beer, wine and cheese flavors. These bacteria grow sequentially. Initially the Leuconostoc sp. produces organic acids, which lower the pH to about 3.5 and the chemical DIACETYL (the flavor of butter). They are followed by Lactobacillus sp. which produce more acids, lowering the pH to ~2.0. To make sauerkraut the cabbage must be shredded to produce a large surface area for the growth of the microbes and to extract the plant juice-nutrients which will be metabolized by the microbes. Sodium chloride (table salt) is added to a concentration of 3% to provide OPTIMUM environmental conditions for the growth of the desired fermenting bacteria, to help EXTRACT the tissue juices, and to INHIBIT the growth of microbes (molds) that would ruin the cabbage. The cabbage/salt mixture is weighted down to squeeze out the juices and incubated at room temperature in covered containers. The covers inhibit the entry of oxygen into the mixture and allows the anaerobic fermentation to occur. At the end of the fermentation period the pH should be ~ 2.0 and the sauerkraut should contain about 1% lactic acid.

Ted

More searching on boza or bouza it becomes obvious that this is where the term "booze" comes from as it is up to 4% ethanol and fermentation of grain = beer.
This is the extreme scenario methinks

So, anerobic ferment creates ethanol, wheras oxygen provides the acetic acid step - maybe kefir is the way to go to give less alcohol......
I thought of a way to reduce it - basically to add some dried raisins or other fruit after fermenting so some water and ethanol will get drawn into the dry matter. Should be an opportunity for research.

Off to visit the lecturer in Fermentation Biology here at Uni soon.

Ted

Hi Ted
Now you're talking about 'water' kefir...fermented in water and fruit..requires a different grain I believe.
Re saukraut... I have some sitting on my fridge..fermented in whey (produced from letting my raw milk stand and separate)..has been sitting there for 2 years now and is fine..if you like the taste!

All kefir is basically from the same stock. If you change the media, then some of the seven or so bacteria sp and three or four yeast sp will thrive and some will be subdued until a new equilibrium is established.
This is why it is recommended to throw away the first few batches as they may not be very edible and some traces of dairy will be still contained in the kefirin polysaccharide.
Coconut milk does produce quality after a while, water with sugar and honey etc. too and you can "breed" your own stock for almost anything - see Dom's kefirkraut...

Ted

Hi Ted,
Interesting isn't it. I also thought Booze could originate from that word as the drank is very old, as a non native speaker however I wasn't sure of it. It is also nice to see how the islamics as non alcohol drinkers (in more recent times that is) managed to make a non alcoholic variety of the drink. Also interesting to see how a drink evaluates from stuff drinked by sultans in crystal glasses with silver mountings to stuff sold in a dirty joint in plastic containers to local alcoholics. The first link gives a picture of the shop I visited and the bottles of which I still have one in my house. The inside of the shop is beautifully tiled and is as nice as the outside and I will surely visit it again in january and maybe try freeze a sample for a start badge.
I also found another recipe by the way in which also yoghurt and vanilla were added to the mixture. The combination of bacteria and yeasts makes the resemblance to Kefir even greater.
Gerard

"That we become twice as old now as a century ago is the work of plumbers, not doctors" -Midas Dekkers-

Apparently scholars think booze may originate from Old Tuetonic breuro ''to brew'' or beuwz ''barley''. But as a strictly bar room scholar I guess the word came back with the crusaders after the locals got them all pissed.

This we prescribe though no physician . . .
Our doctors say this is no month to bleed. (Rich. II)

Hey Bilko,
I found another etymology: booze - 1768 "drink a lot" (v.), from Middle.English. bouse (c.1300), from M.Dutch. busen "to drink heavily," related to M.H.G. bus (intrans.) "to swell, inflate," of unknown origin. The noun is first recorded 1859, reinforced by name of Philadelphia distiller E.G. Booze. Boozy was one of Benjamin Franklin's 225 synonyms for "drunk," published in 1722. In New Zealand from c.WWII, a drinking binge was a boozeroo.

So there was already a word to bouse in 1300, well after the crusades by the way, so its
middle east origin could still be true. Interesting to note that busen is the German word for a woman's breast while the Dutch word is boezem which is pronounced like booze with an extra m at the end. So we also have the obvious association between the drinking heavily and the woman's breast (and a very nourishing drink). And somehow we also made a circle and come back to Ted's earlier dead horse's post.
Gerard

"That we become twice as old now as a century ago is the work of plumbers, not doctors" -Midas Dekkers-

And full circle back to Islamic/Arabic influences?.... there is an Arabic word for the breast... bazezal (don't know how one would spell it)... which may be a 'pet' word or 'the' word..I don't know!
Sue

Hi Ted and all AS kickers,

After reading the discussion including Boza, I decided to buy and try a bottle of Boza which is a few meters distance to my workplace. Boza always remind me my childhood years. Since many years ago especially in winter nights a boza seller walks thorugh the streets saying aloud Bozaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Actually Boza is made up with bulgur or corn or barley or a mixture of bulgur and corn.

Anyway I bought a bottle of Boza and test with iodine first and the result is black dark. But I tried two glass to see the result . Also I am trying to stay in LSD for a year approximately and recently I was added the rice to my food list with no effect.

Vefa Boza is a famous trademark and can be found widely in Istanbul. I am located in Ankara so I bought another make Akman Boza. The ingrident is water,sugar, corn flour. The rice is not included. The chemical analysis /100g reflects:

Calorie:88k.cal
Protein:9,7g
Vitamin B1:0,005mg
Vitamin B2:0,009mg
Vitamin B6:0,057mg
Vitamin C:1,755mg
Niacin:0,368mg
Calcium:1,98mg
Iron:1.26mg
Magnesium:31.2mg

A receipt for an actual Boza for 12 person:

2 glass bulgur
21 glass water
2 spoon flour
½ glass yoghurt
1 teaspoon dried yeast
2,5 spoon sugar
½ spoon vanilla
2 spoon cinnamon
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Put the bulgur in a large container and add 12 glass of water and put it rest for one night with closed in room temperature. Boil it for a period 2 hours with a low heaing.Than put it to blender and filter it by using fine strainer and than put it to refrigerator.

Take the remaining part inside the strainer and put it to container and add 8 glass of water and boil it again 1h and and do the strainer process again and add it to the main part in the refrigerator.

Put the flour in a small container and add 2/3 glass of water and continiously mix it up to thicken (with low heating). Stop the boiling and add 2 spoons of sugar and mix it up up to sugar dissolving. When it is near cool add the yoghurt. Dissolve the dried yeast within 1/4 glass of water and wait 5 minutes and add it to flour-yoghurt mixture. Put it rest in 30 minutes.

Put the flour-yoghurt-yeast mixture into bulgur and rest it in room temparure 1-2 days. Don't forget to mix it occasionally.

Put the vanilla and rest of sugar to main mixture and ensure that they are dissolving completely.

Serve it with cinnamon.

Comsume the Boza max. within 3-4 days.


Tiger