Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; Is soya milk starch free?

Sorry, Olivia:

In truth, AS can go into remission for many years; it is dependent upon very individualistic factors, like the integrity of the intestinal tract. In taking NSAIDs, you might be one of the lucky ones, or otherwise find that you must take more and more of the stronger drugs and finally your AS symptoms will become quite bad.

Certainly, I hope that you are in remission more than relapse, but knowledge of the starch connection is very important in managing the disease. I was a vegetarian for most of my AS experience, so I ate plenty of starches and was in remission for many long periods, but I early discovered fried foods were provocative. Depending upon the location of your lesions, this may not be so definitive.

Every case of AS is related to the germ, but starch intake might not be so obvious to those either in constant low-level flare or taking NSAIDs, or even with other conditions, especially candidiasis.

I was never able to complete the apple regimen--apples make me hungry--until after I found out about Ebringer's work and proved AS is caused by intestinal problems. It is a hurdle that, to jump over requires being chased by a bad demon. Many of us were never sick enough to get well by such extreme effort, but, with the knowledge we now possess, it would be a shame to wait until you become much worse. But that is a personal choice each of us makes every day.

We all sincerely wish you all the best and restored Health...by whatever method suits You,
John

"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?"
Charles Babbage

I'm sorry that the apple fasting caused you problems.
Fasting with no solids and just gallons of pure or filtered water may be a better option for you.

Fasting is a process of introducing no nutrients so the body uses whatever is available.
If one is dizzy, nauseous, absolutely energyless, then the body is trying to survive on toxins and re absorbing from the contents of the lower digestive tract!!!!!!
A common problem is that as the body breaks down stored body fats to get glucose, also causing a release of fat soluble toxins and heavy metals.
Anyone who has these symptoms when fasting probably needs to fast more than anyone else. However, it also suggests de-tox, saunas etc. to excrete more toxins.
Have you ever had a body massage and felt absolutely dead tired after it?
That is the toxin release.

Nothing is quite that simple with starch and AS, unfortunately.
Tha auto-immune function (cascade?) is triggered by certain levels of activity and levels of the irritant or antigen. I had several remissions from Reactive Arthritis over a period of years - making it quite hard to decide if there was a trigger or cure...
I had six years without iritis.
Gerard and others will know more about how the immune triggers work, but the main thing is the amount of perforation in one's gut and the level (if any) of colonization by Kp of any part of the body other than the gastric tract.
Hope you find a sound personal approach.


Ted

I've got Crohn’s disease...
...and he's got mine...
Spike Milligan

Hi, Olivia:

It is of extreme importance to test everything, including and especially nectarines this time of year (they have a pernicious form of starch if harvested before total ripeness).

I cannot trust anything in suspension. I reacted to protein shakes from 'soya isolate,' so I believe soya milk is also bad. No smoothies, nothing refined into a powder or emulsion.

The most you can lose on the apple diet is about 0.4 pounds per day in actual weight; in water weight we lose about 2 pounds daily which are reconstituted within the first week of the NSD.

No Green apples; all red and especially heritage like Arkansas black twig and sheepnose.

At first I would stay away from the ice creams and fatty meats; more fresh fish might help, especially salmon. Okra, broccoli, lettuce (a green salad every day is good), bean sprouts, onions, celery, and one day per week just vegetable juices can help very much. EFAs last thing before retiring, especially about 5g total olive oil mixed with fish oils (capsules are Ok), borage seed oil, and flaxseed oil. We try and supplement aggressively, also, especially with minerals like calcium, magnesium, zinc, and boron.

Best Regards,
John






"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?"
Charles Babbage

My AS was also a series of massive flares with what seemed to be long remissions in between, but when my ESR was measured regularly at 3 month intervals the readings remained high even when I felt a lot better. I too was coping with NSAID's. My ESR only finally dropped and remained at normal levels after I stuck to the diet. We learn to cope with low level inflammation and are unaware of the creeping insidious damage it does.

And what's he then that says I play the villain
When this advice is free I give and honest

My ESR level is always at twenties even when there is no pain. I was surprised to see no change in ESR level when I have a flare up . (I expected higher level )

I think I can do a low starch diet more easily. I replace my rice, bread, and noodles with vegetables and fruits. This is a healthier diet anyway. However, to monitor everything including the sauce and juices in canned food.....will make my life very miserable.

Can anyone tell me.....apples have starch.....why do we do 3 day apple diet ? Isn't it contradicting ? Can we do cucumber, carrot and lettuce diet for 3 days instead ?

My rhematologist wants me to take sulphasazine because this flare up has lasted more than 3 months and seems not controllable by Bextra. I worried about the toxicity of this drug but quality of life is very important too. If I'm always confined in a wheelchair, how can I enjoy life ?

Thanks
Olivia

Hi Olivia

Apples and most other fruit (except bananas) are not starchy if they have been ripened properly. My husband eats them every day and has no problems. They can be starchy if they have been picked before they are ripe and then left in cold storage before being put out in the grocery store. In this case, the starch in the fruit has not been able to go thru the natural process of converting into fructose which is safe for ASer's to consume. Usually, if you buy apples from that are sourced locally they will be OK (eg local orchard). Imported fruit is usually cold stored and is often starchy (eg mangoes).

Please don't give up on the No Starch Diet yet. For it to take effect you really need to look a little more long term - like at least 3 months before giving up. It can take this long just to get it straight what is starchy and what is not! At least that was the case for my husband and now after almost 5 months his progress is leaping ahead to the point where he is now able to work fulltime again and start cutting down his anti-flam meds. Previously, he was hardly able to walk and it was really scary.

The diet is very hard to get used to for the first couple of months and I can understand why you would want to give up if you are not yet seeing results. But once you see results you will find you no longer have the desire to eat things you know will hurt you. Some people also do not experience results until they eliminate dairy products (lactose is a secondary food source for the bacteria).

As you say, if you lived your life in a wheelchair you would be miserable. Surely, cutting out foods you know will cause you pain would be less miserable than that?

I wish you all the best, whatever you decide but sincerely hope you will continue with the No starch diet to give it a good chance before quiting.

Someone here has the motto: "Eat to live, don't live to eat"

Good Luck
Chelsea

My husband went out to the orchard and picked ripened red delicious apples from the trees (not from the shelves) 2 days ago. I tested them with iodine. They turn dark blue right away.......very very starchy. I ate them anyway, 8 on the first day, 2 on the following days. My pain gets no better nor worse.

Apples and soy milk are excellent nutritious food. It would be a shame to stop eating them. I have no problem cutting on rice, potato, cake and bread but I hope half a teaspoonful of corn starch in a sauce will not make me feel guilty.

Thanks
Olivia

Hi Olivia,

Wow, that is pretty scary about those apples. Picked straight out of the orchard, eh? That's a real worry. Perhaps it is the variety altho I have heard the red delicious recommended here. Or perhaps they were not ripe enough when picked off the tree. My husband eats a variety called Pacific Rose and when we test them with iodine they are not starchy at all. Perhaps you could try a different variety and only eat them if they test OK. You definately wouldn't want to be eating anything that turns dark blue when tested!

My husband flares up at the smallest sign of starch and so that is why he has to be so strict on this diet. Even cornstarch in a sauce would cause him pain - we had this experience with ketchup and also sweet chilli sauce. Some people do not need to be so strict forever - just for the first few months until they are happy with their pain levels. Then they can add things in that they previously had to eliminate and their body can now handle them.

This diet is not about deprivation and guilt, it's about controlling your pain. You choose what you eat, no one is going to condemn you if you choose to eat things with starch in them.

All the best, I hope you start getting some relief from your pain soon so you no longer have to feel so frustrated.

Good Luck
Chelsea

Olivia,

So sorry to hear that you're having such a time of it! I, too, hope you'll hang in there, though -- and as Chelsea said, each of us has to decide our own diet and how far we're willing to go with it. I just find myself thinking "Is this food going to cause me any pain -- and is it worth it?" I made homemade yeast rolls for my daughter's birthday dinner this evening -- they smelled so gooooood -- but even they aren't worth stiffness and pain to me.

I just finished the apple diet for the 2nd time this past weekend. Strangely, I don't feel especially hungry during it, and have no ill effects except that my tongue turns bright orange which I believe could be a release of toxins. I notice that fasting either that way or even just by skipping some meals when I'm feeling a little achier or sore really makes a difference for me. I think I'm still in a low level flare, but slowly and surely I'm heading toward remission. I understand your confusion about having had flares and remissions previously while eating starches -- that is my history, too -- but I still think, at least for me, that the NSD is making a difference. I have to admit that I hate doing the apple diet, but I like the end results. Of course, I don't feel badly the way you've been feeling with it.

You mentioned in one post about having to read labels, etc. My strategy for that is to eat as little processed food as possible. Meat, seafood, fruits, veggies and nuts are my staples. That at least cuts down on label reading -- but I'm zealous about reading labels when I need to.

I'm sorry you're feeling so frustrated right now. AS is just a real pain all the way around. I hope things start getting better all the way around for you, too.

Paula

Olivia

the iodine test is not quantitative; though the apples turned blue the amount of any starch in them was probably very small. Typically shop bought apples have less than 0.1 g/100g starch and I agree there is no need to stop eating them. The iodine test only indicates a possible problem, that further investigation is needed.

And what's he then that says I play the villain
When this advice is free I give and honest