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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 30
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OP
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 30 |
O.K. guys who is saying what about inulin? I thought John says onions and garlic are safe. Also, I want to get this one brand of pro-biotic that has inulin in it. Researching it I find "inulin is a preferred food for the lactobacilli in the intestine and can improve the balance of friendly bacteria in the bowel". So, isn't that what we want? Those of you who react to this are you the same ones reporting reactions to pro-biotics? That makes sense if this is feeding the pro-biotics that you would also have the same response to it. But the big question is WHY? If A.S. is largely due to an unhealthy colon then why would restoring essential flora aggravate it? And if it does maybe it's a rebalancing and not necessarily a bad thing? I don't know what do you all think?
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,198
Steel_AS_Kicker
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Steel_AS_Kicker
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,198 |
Hey i like your response/post there and seeing people think and speak bug language. Well spotted. Be interesting to know how same people react to iron - as another bug fostering ingredient in the mix.
Each gut is different and each bug profile population therein is different and each level of damage is different. It's a mountain of possibilities and there are other gene markers (than B27) and so much going on that i am surprised we have as much in common as we do.
Some people just need a stable gut environment and any change will trigger some effect - especially for IBS/IBD/Crohns.
Your rebalancing idea is i think quite close to the mark and i believe we should do these major gut changes as a conscious effort AFTER a fast. Maybe better to wipe the slate clean, reduce the population of all bugs then start out with a deliberate act to foster certain types - lactobacilli in the upper regions and bifida et al down further.
Ted  One cannot believe all one reads on the Internet...Abraham Lincoln
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 95
Apprentice_AS_Kicker
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Apprentice_AS_Kicker
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 95 |
For me I am fine with probiotics, home made kefir and yogurt etc, but if I try onions, garlic, leeks, asparagus or just plain FOS or inulin with or without probiotics I get into a flare and feel fatigued. From research I did it seems to just depend what strain of klebsiella you have because some strains do have enzymes to use inulin/fos
Phil
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,934
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,934 |
Hi there,
Not only do FOS and inulin feed the good bacteria, they also feed the bad so this is why some people avoid this additive to their probiotics.
I personally get pro-biotics with just the bacteria in them - no FOS etc.
Chelsea
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 30
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OP
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 30 |
Thanks guys, I didn't realize that the bad guys (Klebsiella) could also use this for food. Gosh, could this diet get any more complicated? No wonder the "No Starch Diet" doesn't always work for people. There is so much more to it then meets the eye. So much more then No Starch. It all makes sense when you put it together and it works that's the most important thing
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,485
Colonel_AS_Kicker
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Colonel_AS_Kicker
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,485 |
Code:
inulin content of various foods [merged data from several sources]
FOOD g/100g
====================================
Artichoke Hearts (leaves) 2-10
Asparagus Root 1-30
Banana 0.3-0.7
Barley 0.5-1.5
Burdock Root 3.5-4
Camas Bulb 12-22
Chicory Root 15-20
Dandelion Leaves 12-15
Garlic 9-16
Jerusalem Artichoke (tuber) 16-20
Leeks 3-16
Murnong Root 8-13
Onion 2-10
Rye 0.5-1
Salsify Root 4-11
Wheat 1-6
Yacon Root 3-19
sources:
http://www.tpclabs.com/file.aspx?FileID=108
http://members.shaw.ca/duncancrow/inulin_prebiotic_probiotic.html
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,485
Colonel_AS_Kicker
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Colonel_AS_Kicker
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,485 |
[I have posted this elsewhere, copying it since it really belongs here..] There is a species of Klebsiella calle 'Klebsiella oxytoca', of which about 94% of strains can ferment inulin (and also ferments just about everything else). Quote:
Fermentation of polysaccharides by Klebsielleae and other facultative bacilli.
Appl Environ Microbiol. 1980 May; 39(5): 988-992.
Ochuba GU, von Riesen VL.
[ed: this is from page 990]
[...] Because the fermentation was a delayed-type fermentation, as previously noted by Kauffman ( 22 ), and the number of positive strains reached 21 of 31 strains by day 7 at 37 C, we decided to continue the incubation of all inulin cultures at room temperature for up to 21 days. Within this period eight additional strains of K. oxytoca ( 29 of 31 ) and two of K. pneumoniae ( 3 of 21 ) became positive. These results gave 68 and 94% positive at 7 and 21 days, respectively, for K. oxytoca and 5 and 14% positive at 7 and 21 days, respectively, for K. pneumoniae. [...]
Thus, it appears that, except for a small percentage of strains of K. pneumoniae which ferment inulin slowly, inulin fermentation is a characteristic of K. oxytoca [..]
from : http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/pagerender.fcgi?artid=291464&pageindex=3
So there you go.. 14% of K. pneumonia strains are capable of fermenting inulin albeit rather slowly!
what I can eat on the diet (click here) -- my blog -- contact me (PM is broken) "Some men, in truth, live that they may eat, as the irrational creatures, 'whose life is their belly, and nothing else.' But the Instructor enjoins us to eat that we may live." -- Clement of Alexandria (about 200 AD)
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 410
Black_Belt_AS_Kicker
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Black_Belt_AS_Kicker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 410 |
This is very interesting - I take a prebiotic at the moment (FOS) that specifically states on the product that it only encourages the growth of healthy bacteria and actually names Klebs and enterobact..(sp!) as examples of baddies that are not affected, maybe there are too many strains for that to be accurate....could be why i'm getting no relief at the moment. anyone come across this?
Sarah x
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,485
Colonel_AS_Kicker
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Colonel_AS_Kicker
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,485 |
Quote:
This is very interesting - I take a prebiotic at the moment (FOS) that specifically states on the product that it only encourages the growth of healthy bacteria and actually names Klebs and enterobact..(sp!) as examples of baddies that are not affected, maybe there are too many strains for that to be accurate....could be why i'm getting no relief at the moment. anyone come across this?
Yes too many strains for such blanket statements as "only feeds good flora" to possibly be true.
Also, if you look at Table 2 in the following research you will see that feeding either FOS or Inulin to rats actually encourages the growth of enterobacteria!
http://gut.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/53/4/530
http://gut.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/53/4/530/T2
enterobacteria are often pathogenic..
what I can eat on the diet (click here) -- my blog -- contact me (PM is broken) "Some men, in truth, live that they may eat, as the irrational creatures, 'whose life is their belly, and nothing else.' But the Instructor enjoins us to eat that we may live." -- Clement of Alexandria (about 200 AD)
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