Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; Yogurt Questions

Hey, anyone have an opinion on this:

I have been taking two ounces/2x day of Stoneyfield Farms plain yogurt according to John's recommendation for the past 5 weeks while following the anti-candida diet besides the NSD. I have been careful almost to a fault. But I keep learning new things. . . now its "inulin."

Problem is that even with all I've done I still flare for several days at a time so that I am still second guessing should I eat this or could it be that. So it could be the inulin in my SweetLeaf Stevia and then I found out it is in my yogurt!

So my question is, should I switch to Brown Cow plain yogurt. It only has four live cultures, but no inulin.

Another question is does the amount of fat in a dairy product have anything to do the amount of lactose. I would like to try whole milk yogurt for the extra fat, but didn't know if it would have a higher lactose content.

I know, I know, I ask soooo many questions. I think Oded thinks I'm a little to anal about all of this. But I want to know. I want so bad for this to work so I can finally say I figured out what was causing my pain and I fixed it!
Oh. . . and when I get through it I'll be able to look back and say I couldn't have done it without all of you!

Thanks!

~Shelli

Hey, Shelli:

YES! PLease switch to Brown Cow; the inulin in Stonyfield Farms could be causing a problem that pectin will not. I'm certain that the fat content only slightly affects lactose, that is, the more fat the less lactose per unit volume.

Even after over a year on the diet, and even after many years, I was and I am still improving. Now mostly it is in my tolerance to the borderline foods, but in other ways that other people notice more than I do...


NEW RECOMMENDATION over Stonyfield Farms:

BROWN COW
OUR FAMILY RECIPE: CULTURED PASTEURIZED MILK, PECTIN. CONTAINS LIVE ACTIVE CULTURES: S. THERMOPHILUS, L BULGARICUS, L. ACIDOPHILUS, AND BIFIDUS.

Regards,
John

Hey shellim, how's it going?

You are going at this diet better than me, I don't have the will to do the anti candida at the moment. Did the NSD for a couple of months, no real change then I gave up lactose completely (went insane for a week) but the pains started to go away and now 1 month later I am taking very few drugs. Although I still have pain and stiffness it not sufficient to take drugs in my opinion.
Maybe this yoghurt is great for probiotics (or whatever) but I am far too scared of pain to try any lactose at the moment. We will see what happens.
I am not an expert on this so I cannot say anything with authority but possibly you could give up the yoghurt for a week or two and see how you feel.

Fergus

Hiya Shellim

I agree with Fergus... kick the dairy completely for a while and see what happens. Many here do not make much progress on the diet until they eliminate dairy along with starch - my hubby is one of those. His progress really jumped ahead when he dumped dairy.

Perhaps in a few months if your AS symptoms are better you could experiment with yoghurt then.

On the NSD, the foods we eat encourage the growth of good bacteria anyway, so I don't belive it is absolutely necessary or compulsory to supplement with probiotics.

Keep up the good work
Chelsea

Dear Shelli,

Oh no! Please do get into the small details. I do it myself, while half laughing half genuinely suspecting I am becoming insane therefore I was saying about myself I wouldn't go too anal about the diet... maybe wishful thinking

Listen, my naturopath says any yogurt with less than 3.5g per 100 of carbs, stated on the cover, should be alright with me. I had trouble finding those that are in the area, but I do feel that they do not cause me any trouble.

I am on NSD for 3.5 months. Just finished one month without sugar of all kinds and anti Candida treatment... no lactose whatsoever as well... (yogurt doesn't count), from now on no refined sugars (I love fruit!.. but will take it easy on them). Going into detailed details with the gut healing... so...

I'm with you spiritually,
and reading your posts and the answers on a constant level.

Cheers,
Oded.

I recently read a report that said up to 1 in 7 adults are lactose intolerant, and so I suspect that among those selected by AS the ratio could be even higher. It would be interesting to do a poll to see how many of us are intolerant.

Lactose intolerant is a hard thing for me to understand. AS aside, I have never thought that I had any problems at all with dairy. I had a little trouble with ice cream giving me a stomach ache a few summers ago--other than that nothing. But I suppose that my previous experience with dairy has not much to do with what I now know about how the lactose can feed the Klebs and cause me pain, not just the typical lactose intolerance type symptoms.

Everyone seems to have differing views on the yogurt issue. I guess it probably is a "fringe" food. John thinks medicinal doses could be beneficial--others think that going without it would be more beneficial, but I wonder if they are considering that I would be taking very small amounts daily, not using it as a major food source in my diet.

I still am not sure what to do. I'm up against a wall on this one. You see, I am joining a natural food coop and I'd like to order a case of yogurt if I am going to use it, but I hate to order a case of 32 oz. yogurts and then change my mind about it. The closest decent health food store to where I live is 3 1/2 hours away! So I really have to plan ahead with buying food and supplements.

Thanks everyone for all your help.

~Shelli

Hi, Shelli:

It is best to do things in cycles and I agree that even a lactose intolerance or some sensitivity to casein will not always be so obvious. The yoghurt is good for the intestinal healing and to displace C. albicans, but you have good advice to quit all dairy, if possible, to see the direction your AS will take then, and whether it has more or less to do with candidiasis activity.

Whatever evaluation cycles there are should be at our own choosing at first, with the general understanding that a flare can begin within 24 hours (and usually much earlier), but may take over 200 hours to subside (although our perception of what is happening can vary considerably, the half-life of the provocative IgA is about 100 hours).

I hope that you have noticed some degree of symptom modification through diet by now, but in the case of the fungal overgrowth diet has had much less impact, so people get discouraged. It takes many days to be rid of the Candida, and then up to three months to properly heal. I hope that you do not commit to such a large quantity of yoghurt; I would not be half through a case before the expiration date!

With the amount of antibiotics (and steroid injections) I have taken, I am also at great risk for candidiasis, but I suppose with the fasting and apple cleansings--and a bit of caprylic acid, colloidal silver, and oregano oil on occasion--I have avoided this situation...also just through sheer luck, I suppose.

Hope that this helps,
John

John:

Thanks for the clarification. Sometimes in these posts it is hard to tell what you really mean. If we could just sit down and talk maybe I'd get it.

In that first paragraph when you said that (sorry I can't figure out how to use the quote button) I have good advice to quit all dairy to see what might happen with my symptoms and whether it has more or less to do with the candida. How will I know if it has to do with the candida, if my symptoms are better or worse? I'm confused about the connection between the yogurt and the candida and how will I know. The yogurt could help the candida, but could be feeding the klebs. Am I making this difficult or is it really this complicated?

I'm not too discouraged yet. I can't quit. I have to see this thing through. I haven't figured out what causes my flares, could be the yogurt or the inulin in the yogurt and stevia, could have been the cooked cabbage. . . who knows. I'm sticking with raw veggie salads these days except occasional steamed broccoli, brussel sprouts (which I love) and tonight I did try okra again. I quit using the Stevia with the inulin in it and haven't had yogurt for about a week now. So we'll see. When I do have a flare, it does tend to last about four to five days.

I cook all kinds of wonderful foods for my family all the time. They are eating much healthier these days. I derive my pleasure of these foods by the smell and by their pleasure in enjoying them. I enjoy my food too, but I miss being able to eat some of the things I fix for them. I have to say it is difficult cooking and not even being able to taste it. The kids all love volunteering to be a taste tester for me!

I am going to order some oil of oregano soon. Zampeiron recommends taking the oil sublingually, a few drops 2-3 times per day. I found some good quality oil on line for a reasonable price so I think it is time to give it a go.

But I am curious about a further explanation of that first paragraph. My husband thinks he understands perfectly what you mean, but he can't explain it so that it makes sense to me. By the way, I'm not blond!

Thanks, John.

~Shelli