Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; For DragonSlayer (Sugar-NSD-NSAID's)

*anybody can jump in and help answer these questions if you like*

Hi John,
I think you won't have any trouble finding this post since it is your favorite forum.

I'm noticing lately that if I eat any food high in sugar (empty calories) it makes me have stomach problems and makes me feel lousy in general. The thing I tried last was 2 different brands of chocolate milk. One had 24 grams of 'sugar' and the other had 24 grams of High Fructose Corn Syrup. I was able to handle the one that had sugar as an ingredient, but it was still too sweet and effected my stomach for about 15 minutes. The other with High Fructose Corn Syrup, I thought it was going to give me some serious problems during that night, and because of it, I couldn't eat for 6 hours afterwards. What it does is bloats my stomach by so much that we can actually see my stomach getting bigger. It also burns my stomach too. My wife bought white milk at the same serving size (1 pint), and it claimed it has 12 grams of sugars, but no listing of sweeteners in the ingredients. I never realized that milk is naturally so sweet. As far as cocoa itself goes, I can eat it in single serving amounts, so long as it is not pre-sweetened very much. Have you heard anything as to what the recommended daily allowance of sugars should be? I heard Mercola say the sugar content is too high as it is. And have high sugar content foods ever effected you in such a way?

I noticed that people everywhere are having either great experiences with the NSD, while some are trying but are still having trouble, and while some get nothing out of it. I'm not sure where I fall into those first two categories. I know by dx that I am deficient on more than I bargained for, and it interrupts my digestive system. My own diet typically contains a few starches, but that is because they haven't given me any stomach issues or AS flare as of yet. However, I do need to avoid the worst of the starches or else I will be paying the price later (normally in my stomach). Can deficiencies alter the effectiveness of a persons NSD diet, as far as proper absorption or by ruining the way that the bacteria is to be destroyed? I know I can't stomach the textbook version of the diet, because my GI has some serious issues that need addressing.

And now for that NSAID question....
What do you mean when you say NSAID's can exabberate(sp?)a person's AS symptoms? I have seen that Tnf-Blockers show in clinical studies, that they may not prevent further AS damage, so is it something like that? As of recently, I have been known to take doses of Ibuprofen in doses from 600mg 3x's daily all the way up to 1000mg 3x's daily over a period of 26 years. NSAID's Abuse? I think so too. All I know is that I had to get rid of inflammation with a so-called "safe" NSAID as much as I could to prevent this progressing disease, and to be able to work part time. I progressed anyways.... I did not know what I know now.

Well, when I got home from the hospital, for a scary but controlled episode of cardiovascular problems, I decided to go though my med's warning labels again, and see what meds might be causing it. And there it was, my ibuprofen now says, "long term use may increase the risk of heart attack or stroke" So I went on the internet and found out that people are have increased heart rates, palpitations, and Atrial Fillibration from taking Ibuprofen. My exact problem, although I have a number of possibilities for the cause. So I stopped the NSAID suddenly, and it gave me a brain pain in the top of my head and I couldn't sneeze or cough or do anything with provoking severe pain up there for the past 4 days. I feel like I am bleeding or something. Should I continue them "only as needed" only to relieve this pain, or am I doing the right thing by suffering with that pain for now? I pretty much feel I have destroyed me health with medications. I have come to the conclusion that my best and only treatment would be exercise, diet, and working on my deficiencies, but I need a firm starting ground to work with. I will be seeing my doctor soon, maybe he will help bring my nutrition quirks back to 100% again. I hope he checks for everything.

Well, there you have it. Everything I wanted to discuss with you.
And no, I haven't heard that NSAID's were going to be referred to as DMARD's yet. There is something very wrong with that!

Let me know what you think, because doing so will help me talk to me doc if he ever wants me on NSAID's again. I appreciate your knowledge in this, more than you know.
Take care,
James.

James,

I anxiously await DragonSlayer's reply and any insight that might be provided regarding the stomach problems you describe in the first paragraph. I notice after consuming certain foods that are higher in sugar content (although I do try to minimize my sugar intake as it is an anti-nutrient), I find myself with stomach discomfort. I don't know that I've noticed my belly getting bigger and I don't experience the burn that you do, but I also get bloated for a couple hours afterward. My stomach usually feels heavy and it feels that I have some sort of creature knotted up in there. Wonder what kind of digestive trouble this is. Anyway, thanks for throwing these questions out there. I'm so interested in the replies.

I too am waiting to see what John says about this. I avoid all "processed" forms of sugar, but even if I consume too much "natural" sugar like in fruit & even if I overdo dairy, I have problems. I am working to see which fruits are the worst for me & this is a big dilemma because alot of my diet consists of fruits & vegetables but as time is going on, I am having less tolerance for fruit. I can't figure it out.

james, aloha

glasses...eye glasses

a pint of milk...
the nutrition label for homogonized milk says a pint is TWO portions of 8oz each

each 8oz portion has:
8 grams fat
8 grams protein
12 grams carbs (all from sugar)
80 calories from protein and carbs ( 4calories per gram) and 70 calories from fat (9calories per gram)

sugar is not added it's part of milk solids...milk is not 'sweet' - it's slightly acidic.
perchance...are you lactose intollerant ? it's common in adults.
best
aB

Hi Ben,
Ahh, I think I am lactose intolerant, but through UC. Since my D is back up, I can drink milk again, (sort of). I didn't realise that 1 pint equals two servings, and I do drink both servings each time, so actually I am drinking doubled what I said of 'total sugars'.

Yeah I made a goof, I meant to say that "I didn't know that milk is naturally high in total sugars", not naturally sweet.

So does that mean that if I want to avoid food high in sugar, I am ok to eat food with high 'grams carbs (all from sugar)', unless it has too much actual sugar content or some other form of sweetener?

When did something as simple as eating become this difficult? lol.
(Must keep glasses on)
Take care,
James.

Hi!

I also get problems with my stomack when I eat especially disaccharides. The reason I believe we get problems is that for some reason whe don't have enough enzymes to break down the disaccharides so they move on to the bacteria. When the bacteria break them down they actually ferment them and gas is produced. This gas causes your intestines to swell up and that's why you are in pain.

Se this lnik!
Bacterias n stuff

Maybe one should try and eat some enzymes that digest sugar?

Hi, James:

First, let me apologize for the name of the NSD. It should properly be called a series of dietary measures that will hopefully result in elimination of most starches that provoke an AS reaction.

Since our nemesis germ also ferments lactose and lactose is sometimes not absorbed early enough in the digestive tract, milk and many milk products can cause AS problems. Fruits can also be a problem here, since the bacterium’s first food choice is sugar and if we could deliver sugar unabsorbed into our lower tract, it would cause flares. Consider that some fruits are very rich in fructose and this sometimes does not so easily come out of the pectin cell matrix—no matter what level of Fletcherization we apply.

I think, however, that you have something else going on more related to dysbiosis and candidiasis. Dysbiosis is the accepted term for normal intestinal flora either being out of balance or out of place or, usually the case, both. Candidiasis is the condition caused by the overgrowth of the common bowel flora Candida albicans, technically a yeast. Symptoms of this include that very personal itching that might cause us to ‘fidget,’ and there is a basic test for this: A clear glass of room temperature distilled water and upon arising before brushing teeth, spit onto the surface and place in a cool dark place. Check it in four hours and intervals of two after this, noticing whether there are ‘stringers’ or threads issuing down from the surface. If so, there is a good chance you have severe candidiasis.

But this may not be the root of the problem, either.

Understand that AS is caused by the common bowel germ Klebsiella pneumoniae, but it is triggered by anything that causes LGS (leaky gut syndrome) and we cannot get AS—no matter what our genetics are—unless we have LGS. Candidiasis causes LGS, but NSAIDs do, also. It by this very mechanism that NSAIDs will greatly accelerate (exacerbate) AS activity. We have a technological diet—foods are refined, treated, adulterated, and otherwise screwed up to extend shelf life or get us hooked or make it pretty enough to stuff into our faces. Our bowel flora take full advantage of this and what we eat determines the relative composition of our mucosa (it this case, the substrate for the over 200 enterobacteriaceae, 3000 viruses, 50 or so fungi, and other identified residents we don’t even want to talk about).

Scientists label most of these residents as benign or non-virulent, but we absolutely know that they can be virulent when misplaced—so there is probably an in-between condition that we know as AS but others know as asthma or perhaps conditions not yet associated with various residents.

Sometimes a reaction to sugars can be due to candidiasis, other times, as when the reaction is so immediate, there is dysbiosis associated with gastric ulcer. It is not easy to tell the difference, and in treating the gastritis using antibiotics, the candidiasis will almost certainly get worse (fasting will successfully treat both).

Not to belabor the point, but the gastritis, which may or may not be caused by H. pylori, but certainly there are some bacteria involved where they ought not be, and things like PPI drugs only make this worse, long-term.. A course of antibiotics along with PPI (proton pump inhibitor) during this and slightly after, might be a good alternative to fasting, but fasting also reduces AS symptoms. I learned many years later the reason fasting eases AS—it is because our intestinal flora is greatly reduced. After an extended fast of 20 days, I was in remission for many months and my explanation, in light of what I have learned since then is that such a lengthy fast allowed much intestinal healing.

It took fasting (7 days plus 4 days with week of no dairy in between) for me to eliminate my own cases of GI-itises (proctitis, diverticulitis, jejunitis, colitis, cryptitis…) that were the result of my own NSAID abuse (taking ANY NSAIDs at recommended dosages will almost always result in abuse; they kept changing the warning literature inside the boxes of Voltaren I was buying…I actually read that stuff…). This was before the connection with H. pylori was accepted, and when I resolved to not return to the doctors for still more drugs to treat the side effects of…drugs.

There are about four or five days of misery to endure starting the fast and eliminating NSAID usage, but this can be endured—and should be, to eliminate NSAID usage after the fast so that intestinal healing can continue.

I don’t know whether or not the Edgar Cayce 3 Day Apple Diet would help set things right again, but with apple season fast approaching, it is something to consider, even if you treat for H. pylori, which can also help with AS, btw, if you remain on a reduced-starch regimen.

What I am certain about is that control of AS requires many cycles and treatment options; it does not go away so rapidly, just as it took a long time to develop. The treatment options should always include diet, but some individuals may not need to be so strict, albeit everyone should be very strict at first.

Cycles should include anti-candidiasis regimens (elimination of sugars, refined starches, cheeses, table grapes, pineapple, etc). Tuna is our friend as are colloidal silver, caprylic acid, raw garlic, enteric-coated oregano oil, and vitC. Also, anti-parasite regimens like taking wormwood and eating seven servings of bitter melon in one week ( 3 and a half average sized melons—the size of a small cucumber, usually, total). The Zampieron, et al book (Arthritis: An Alternative Medicine Definitive Guide) contains many good suggestions, despite not giving proper credit for Cayce’s castor oil packs. But my main cycles were those I dictated (after discussions with microbiologists and others who might know about our nemesis bacterium)—antibiotics, total starch and dairy exclusion, fasting, apples, less strict diet, etc.

Eventually, I was able to eliminate all the inflammation, reducing my ESR from 45 to 18 and able to maintain this level using diet alone, staying away from milk products, generally. Once I began eating too much cheese again (I keep forgetting it is a condiment and not a main dish!), the symptoms would creep back and I needed to take more antibiotics and be strict with diet again. In this period, it would take almost a day for minor symptoms to happen and about 3 days to resolve the pains, measuring ESR up to 26, then a fast would move the needle back down. Taking NSAIDs and anything else that dulls our pain also dulls our perception of exactly which foods were the worst. Although I did discover the deep-fried foods connection with flares while taking these terrible drugs.

Sorry this is such a lengthy reply, but there are no simple solutions, and therefore no promises to the problems of both healing the gut while treating some of these conditions.

By the time I discovered antibiotics, I had fasted so often that I do not think that I had candidiasis, so this is a compilation of experiences that other people fighting both AS and candidiasis have had to endure. I did have all the gastric ulcers, top-to-bottom, and did treat these with great success: No recurrence in 20 years.

To heal the gut, supplements are important: VitC, vitE, niacin, lysine, glycine, and vitD (especially from sunlight). Foods can also help: Okra, lychee fruit (available in Asian markets), and yoghurt (live active cultures; I recommend Brown Cow and Stonyfield Farms brands in this order) in small quantities at first. Some believe that yoghurt is low-lactose and galactose, since much of these have been consumed in the fermentation process, and goat’s milk yoghurt might be superior, if it can be found. Some of us will react to yoghurt (even at 2oz/ serving 2 servings daily), until more intestinal healing has been achieved. Colostrum can be used, and EV olive oil at 2-6 teaspoonfuls daily, GLAs as in borage seed, evening primrose, and black currant oils. Flaxseed oil and cod liver oils can also be used to total at least 11g EFAs (omega 3 essential fatty acids) daily. Zinc is especially important to intestinal health, also, and this plus magnesium citrate and calcium in any form (chelated is best) should be taken. After a few months of NSD without dairy, supplementation, and healing foods, some borderline foods might be “tested” provided we are in remission and not taking drugs.

Foods that have high-lectin content or can otherwise have adverse effects upon the intestinal lumen: Citrus juices, nightshades, fry oils, and most refined starches, especially in persons with AS.

Sorry if this is redundant—I was waiting for my internet connection to come back up after some maintenance, so had too many hours to reply…

bon appetit,
John

Hi Chelsea,
Thanks for clarifying that up for me.
Take care,
James.

Thanks John,

What you wrote, explains alot. You just single handedly explained how I made the trade off between GI misery to increased joint pains, and how my pain now shows through NSAID's, Anti-Tnf's, and hard narcotics for the last 6 months. My vitamin D deficiency made eating very hard for me, even with the most basic of foods. So while my doctor was playing around with the thought that I might have Crohn's, he saw that I was deficient, treated my for it, and said "now drink milk, drink it for the vitamin D so you can eat". So I began to drink it several times a day, and the stomach woes were decreasing as I ate, but my AS was starting to begin a slow and persistant flare. This month my right shoulder, my knees and my wrists are giving me a very hard time. My last vertabral compression hurts me almost as it did when it happened a year and a half ago. It shouldn't be doing that with the amount of meds I'm on. The answer would have to be the dairy, because that is the only, if not most dramatic, dietary change I have made in a while, considering the fact that last year I didn't eat dairy. Of course the higher sugar contents and continued long term NSAID's isn't helping either. I'm glad I used the milk as my example, and I am glad that you replied to me with this informative reply. I also now understand how NSAID's can accelerate AS activity.

I'm also glad to hear somone say why the the diet may not be effective for everyone equally, eg lactose, sugars, dysbiosis, fructose, candidiasis, NSAID's interferring etc. Up until now I felt like I had failed the diet, though not completely because I do get some pain relief. I know some other people that feel the same way, some of which have strayed away from the diet, so I hope everyone can see your response.

Thanks for sharing your personal experiences too. Without them, this would probably be harder for me to comprehend. I'm sorry to hear that you had so many GI issues in the past, but I am excited for you that you are able to say you had no reoccurances.

Good luck with your continued success.
I'd like to write more, but I have to go move around.
Thanks for all of this useful info. It's aprreciated!
Take care,
James.