Kickas.org Forums Ankylosing Spondylitis General Discussion #1 AS Web Support Group Diagnoses

BLAH, HA, HA..lol aren't you glad there is just 1 of me..lol

Viscious and cruel????...ME! thats not what your girlfriend says...lol

Oh and I SO know that I am the boss of KA World *shh just between us, Mig didn't hear that..lol*

Hi Dean,

I don't think there was any harm in bringing this back to the forefront, so I wouldn't sweat that. Because you did miss the original discussion, that's a completely valid reason to make a post now, especially because this was an important issue and it did lead to a drastic consequence (Kevin leaving). So please, don't worry at all that you felt compelled to respond to this and thus brought it back to the top of the forum again.

I would like to respond to one thing you said. You mention that you "shall be very careful on my future posts to make sure no one is offended." While that is absolutely a worthy goal, and one we should all strive for, I'm afraid it also forces me to deliver some bad news: No matter what you post, be it the most benign, helpful, nice, courteous, cheery, or even downright nauseatingly saccharine entry of ALL-TIME, there's a chance something in that post might offend someone. If the last few months here at KA have taught me anything, it's that it is absolutely 100 percent IMPOSSIBLE to know what post might cause offense in one or more members and, as a result, end up triggering anything from a two-post polite disagreement to an all-out 300-post multi-faction war that results in little more than a scorched earth result. I used to think I could accurately identify any and all problem posts before they really became problems, but I have been disabused of that notion many times over now. Certainly, there are posts that are so odious that they immediately cry out to all who read them, "This is an obnoxious, offensive post certain to really p*** off a whole bunch of people," and when those suckers do rear their ugly heads, we admins try to take action as fast as we can in order to minimize any damage said post might cause. Sometimes we're successful at that, sometimes we're too late, or sometimes the original post's perpetrator makes sure that the issue does not die with just one post and keeps the nastiness flowing until s/he tires of the battle or, worst-case scenario, someone gets banned (I cover this idea of intentionally negative posts in a slightly different way a bit further down, FYI).


Before anyone wonders, this would be a good place to let anyone reading this know that I do NOT think that any post in this thread is an example of what I just spoke of, i.e., the intentionally nasty post. Everything that went wrong in this thread was purely unintentional and a result of, in my opinion, nothing more than different worldviews; this thread is a good example of how every one of us here at KA is offended by different things, at different times (i.e., something that offends us when we're feeling really crappy and just plain mad at the world might sail by our scanners undetected on a good day), for different reasons, and in varying degrees. Because that is true, we had an unfortunate situation arise in this thread where a well-liked, long-time member like Kevin felt that remaining here at KA would ultimately cause him more stress than he felt ready to handle at this time. That, of course, really bums me out, and I know it bums out a lot of other people too. In the past, I would always try to talk someone out of leaving when a situation like this arose, but these days, I no longer do that. Why? Because I came to realize that if someone really has become so upset by things s/he reads here that coming here has begun to cause a level of distress that is no longer offset by the good and helpful posts that dominate every forum, then it probably is time for that person to take a break.

Whenever someone does decide to leave, there is usually a "last straw" event that triggers the departure, as appears to have been the case this time. While I lament the loss of any member, especially a truly valuable member like Kevin, who contributed to the KA community in many ways on a near-daily basis, I actually take heart if only one person leaves because to me, that indicates that, in reality, the "method" of dealing with conflicts and angry confrontations that has come to dominate the KA forums has worked once again. Don't read the wrong thing into that: I know it sounds as if I'm saying, "Oh goodie, only one person left, no harm done," that is not the case at all. I recognize that the offending event was absolutely real to the person involved, and that it bothered them enough to decide "enough was enough." That unquestionably sucks, and I hate it when ANY member decides that KA no longer meets his/her needs and thus they must exit the premises. However, anyone who has ever belonged to any other internet forum or discussion group knows that in truly dysfunctional groups, people leave every day, and not only that, they leave in groups, not just one by one. The end result is always the same--eventually that forum/group becomes essentially inactive and dies a slow death. I think we can all agree that nothing of the kind is even close to happening here at KA. Yes, occasionally people do leave, sometimes in a very public manner. However, as anyone can see from our constantly growing numbers, for every person that leaves, we are bringing in quite a few new people these days. That doesn't mean the contributions of the person who left can ever be replaced, but it does mean that KA is still a healthy, thriving forum/support group that continues to draw new people who generally like the atmosphere we provide. In addition, history tells us that many of the folks who leave end up coming back to the fold eventually; they decide that they are willing to give KA another chance, and some admit they ended up missing the support they received here more than they thought they would. (And Kevin, if you're reading this, as I hope you are, I do hope that one day you reach that point and decide to come back to us. Too many people here love you and really miss you, and you provided a positive influence to every forum you chose to post in.)

Let me take a stab at providing a better explanation of what the main point I'm trying to make here, still using this thread as an example (simply because it is current and on-topic, not because I think that anything Kevin did was out of line, or in any way "wrong" for him to do). Earlier, I alluded to the fact that KA has developed a "method" of dealing with in-forum member disagreements. What I meant by that is that, in addition to the formal process in which admins (or moderators) intervene in a conflict, a process of self-correction has evolved here at KA that allows the membership to police itself and resolve potential conflicts before admin intervention is required. I feel very strongly that this process of self-correction is one of the most important, sustaining features at a forum like KA, and I feel that our membership has done a wonderful job of embracing that process.

For example, early in this very thread, a couple posts were made that triggered a highly negative reaction from a few members. At the same time, a few other members decided to post to say that they did not quite see what the ruckus was about because they did not think any offense was intended by the original "negative" post. For a brief time, it looked as if the thread might spin out of control and that the intervention of the admin team might be required. Rest assured, the post WAS being monitored from the first moment a potential conflict appeared.

Almost as quickly as the argument arose, however, the flare seemed to die down. Other members jumped in and tried to mediate the disagreement, talking to those on both sides of the fence to try to create a middle ground while also attempting to minimize any hurt feelings that might have occurred. I was very pleased to see this type of reaction occur so quickly after the initial problem, because, in all honesty, if a forum is to remain healthy, it is this kind of user interaction that MUST happen when disputes arise. Yes, the admin team could have jumped in immediately and issued warnings all around and, in all likelihood, brought any real discussion in this thread to a screeching halt. That would have been good, right? wrong, at least in my opinion it is wrong. If that had happened, and if the discussion would have just come to a halt, the end result would have been this: Instead of the issue being talked through until the thread had completely moved past the disagreement and moved on to, potentially, many other conversation points, all of them benign, some of them likely humorous, the discussion would have died very abruptly. As a result, no resolution to the original disagreement would have been attempted, and it is very likely that whatever wounds had been opened by that disagreement would have remained open and perhaps even started to fester. Members who were upset by the original negative post would have remained upset, and, absent any discussion in the thread, they would have no idea WHY the person made that original post, or WHAT they meant by that post. Instead, they would likely follow human nature and think the worst about that post and the person who left it--this might include thinking that the person made the post intentionally in an attempt to hurt someone's feelings or drive them to anger.

To me, that is one of the worst kind of lingering thoughts we can have around here because, truly folks, how many times has someone made a post here at KA that was INTENTIONALLY designed to hurt someone, or INTENTIONALLY designed to anger one or more people? I'll shout my answer to that one: NOT VERY OFTEN. C'mon, you guys know that's true; in all my years here, I can count on one hand the number of times I witnessed someone here being mean for mean's sake, or someone who absolutely disliked another member SO much, that s/he could not resist making that dislike public in the most offensive way possible.

And here's the thing: On the few occasions when such an attack or nasty post did appear, THEN the admin team stepped in immediately. That's because it is immediately clear to us and every member who can read that the post/thread in question serves ZERO useful purpose here at KA, that it contains NO lessons for any of us to learn, and, in the end, it could create nothing but negative energy and cause real distress within our membership. In most, if not all, instances that I can remember where something truly nasty did happen, a new member would be involved, one who had almost certainly joined KA solely to cause problems, either as part of an existing agenda or because something s/he read on his/her first visit somehow triggered an irrationally angry or hurtful response. There have been a couple situations involving longer-term members, but those truly are the furthest and fewest between of ANY of the negative situations that we deal with on a regular basis.

So, to get back to the type of posts that occurred in this thread and many like it, because it was obvious that nobody was guilty of intentionally trying to hurt anyone else here, and because the thread dealt openly with the conflict and quickly started to move on (either to issues related to the original post or to address comments made in posts that helped ameliorate the conflict), I would argue that the interaction that happened here was, ultimately, beneficial to the overall health of KA. I say this because once again we saw how the wonderful members here are able to self-manage and overcome conflicts that arise here, usually inadvertently, and in a positive manner. Positive in that, after the negative comments and resulting conflict, a good, open discussion occurs. In that discussion, we almost always see the direct participants in the conflict "speak" to one another via additional posts; the vast majority of the time, these direct conversations resolve the original problem and lead to a better understanding of why someone might have made what was perceived as a "negative" comment in the first place. In addition, other members are also able to join the discussion and thus provide many other positive additions to the discussion; these can include posts that act as a calming influence, those that are intelligent additions to the discussion that cover points that perhaps the original participants had not thought of, or perhaps those that use humor to defuse the original conflict and sooth any hurt feelings that might have resulted from that conflict. It is that last type of post that often results in some of the most original, intelligent, and incredibly creative content that we ever see here at KA. After all, laughter really is the best medicine.

On that note, I believe I'll take my leave. Dean, thanks for inadvertently providing what turned into a jumping off point for something I've been thinking about for quite a while but was unable to put into words. My thoughts on this topic just weren't coalescing in any kind of coherent manner, despite a couple attempts to write on this exact topic, attempts that quickly fell by the wayside. Once I read your stated goal of "never offending anyone," something clicked and this post is the result. Hope it makes sense to those of you who don't happen to be the little men living in my brain.

Brad

I'm not sure after reading this entire thread what clues me in to it in the first place, but reading it moved mr to the point that I'm actually responding on my I-phone, which is a truly onerous way to post.

Kevin, I sincerely hope you'll come back. I got back from holiday and thought that perhaps you'd gone away for a few days yourself...until today. What started as a very well thought out and presented discussion point became toxic somehow. While Brad is correct in his assessment, fact is anything that makes one of our fammily feel unwelcome or that he or she needs to leave is, to my mind, toxic.

It's hard to gauge intent in a post, for all the reasons we all know. Add to the mix the pain we all live with, the fear for the future, the meds many of us are on, the life changes and perception alterations we are forced to make, not to mention the disparite personalities and outlooks, other things going on in our lives (this list could go on ad nauseum frankly) and I'm surprised we don't have a blow-out every single day.

But we don't. And that is a bloody miracle!

The increase in contentious posts may be for the reasons Brad stated and probably are to a great degree, but more than a few of us are going through crap in our personal lives as well, much of which is not shared here. At the risk of offending some, I would urge all of us to take a step back before responding to posts we find offensive. Make sure our reactions are actually due to what has been said and not due to increased personal stress levels, or coloured by our anger or pain by those real world circumstances. It's no more fair to take our personal stressors out on our KA Family than it is to take our pain out on our immediate families, friends and spouses.

I care about all of you, downright love some of you. I'm not sure what's going on around here, but it's hurting people I care about and love. Personally, I just wish it would stop. But that's not realistic in a group as large, long-standing and diverse as ours. So, I'll take my own advice, take a step back for a mo, remember to breathe.

And the next time I feel tempted to post from my I-phone...promptly bang my head on a brick wall. Surely that will be easier to take than typing so much in this hunt and peck fashion.

Love,

Yes..it is only after thinking about it I have realized I haven't been seeing certain people on here for awhile. I do agree with you that alot of us have alot going on in our personal lives that people here dont know about, me being one of them.

I agree with what you say 100%

I really miss Kevin. He added so much to this forum. Sometimes people(all of us) have to slow down before we send off an answer to something someone said. With the written word is so easy to misinterpret the meaning of a post. We miss so much without being able to hear the tone of someone's voice. A little difference in tone can make a big difference in meaning.
Donna

Kevin has been in touch, and has said he will return to the forum at some point.

Hopefully he will be so offended by me revealing here what he told me in a PM, that he will return faster to chew me out!

Sent from my iPhone

I'm hoping he will...otherwise i have no one to tell me that my bum is as big as an airplane hanger..lol (ok not really missing that so much..lol) but TONS of other things..lol

Thanks, Lisa. It's so hard to remember in the moment that not only do you (not you personally, Lisa, 'you' as in the person responding to the post) have real life issues, but quite possibly the person you are responding to does as well.

One of the wonders of KA is that somehow we weather these things.

Warm hugs,

Hi Donna, exactly.

Warm hugs,

Dow, thanks for that. It's good to know that Kevin is merely taking a sabatical.

Warm hugs,