Kickas.org Forums Ankylosing Spondylitis General Discussion Helpful Tips Diet

Hi all
I've just joined the website. I've had AS since a child but badly for the last 35 years from my 20s (including an annual bout of iritis) but have managed with as little meds as possible and a low starch diet (I was trying to lose weight so it was just a coincidental thing). I recently had a really bad attack (feet, back, shoulders, hips, sternum, etc - luckily no iritis) and am now struggling to adapt to the no starch/sugar/lactose diet (as per a book I bought on-line). I've halved my meds, but am still having problems. How are you all with cocoa, pumpkin and sweet potato? Do we have to cut them out as well? Any advice from those of you who have been successful would be very welcome.

Hi Roni! (waving from Melbourne)

If you are going to be STRICT NSD, you've gotta ditch the pumpkin and sweet potato and maybe the cocoa.....

But if you get yourself under control you may be able to re-introduce small amounts of cocoa, dairy and sugars after a few months.

You might find more responses if you post dietary questions in the diet forum down below...

Thanks inkyfingers (waving back)
I'm pretty upset because it doesn't seem to leave me with much left to eat - I'm just feeling sorry for myself and will get over it. I'll try tofu tonight.

Pumpkin is medium starch, and sweet potato is actually high starch. Cocoa is low starch, so some of us can handle it in moderate amounts. I do better without chocolate though, so it's been many months since I've had any.

You'll need to do some experimenting, since there are no one-size-fits-all rules. Options for treats other than chocolate include almond-flour or coconut-flour baked goods. I can eat a couple home-made almond cookies per day, but the coconut flour treats make me flare; other people have reported the opposite, that coconut flour worked out better for them. My beloved local baking expert uses glucose sugar instead of table sugar in the almond cookies, and I think that helps me tolerate them. If you're not allergic to honey, then honey is another safer alternative to normal sugar. The reason is that glucose and honey are quickly digested rather than staying long in the gut to boost undesired bacteria populations.

Also, I wonder what meds you're on? If NSAID, then might want to try switching to LDN (low-dose naltrexone). It has a milder effect, but doesn't have the counter-productive NSAID side effect of causing damage to your gut with long-term usage. I've cut way back on NSAID usage for that reason, only use it occasionally. For instance, if my eyes sting the day after accidentally eating too much starch or lactose, I'll take a couple Aleve to prevent it from developing into an iritis flare. Another anti-inflammatory that doesn't seem to have side effects is the 5-loxin boswellia supplement. When I started it the effect was gradual, didn't even notice it until after a week, but it let me cut down to half my previous dose of Aleve (this was before I realized diet was important, and I was eating as much starch as ever).

http://www.amazon.com/Life-Extension-Loxin-Capsule-100-Count/dp/B000MYZ2T8

Hm, one of the favorable reviews was written by someone with spondylitis (and it wasn't me).

Roni,

Welcome to KickAS: it's too bad you even need the info on this site. I'm okay with cocoa, but pumpkin and sweet potato make me hurt a lot (I tried a bit of pumpkin pie the other day and ended up hurting for three days). Are you avoiding lactose due to lactose intolerance? You don't have to avoid dairy products just because of NSD. The same goes for sugar.

There's a a thought that Klebsiella will feed on sugars and dairy when it's starved of starch. I'm not too sure about that myself. I think keeping sugar and dairy at low to moderate levels is sufficient, but that's just something you have to figure out for yourself (your reaction is probably not the same as mine).

--Greg

Hi Greg
I bought a book from USA which said keep away from sugar and dairy for the reasons you said. At the moment I'm on normal medication (down from double) and am sore even though I've stopped all things I think are risky (though I only stopped pumpkin the day before yesterday). I wonder if cooked onion is causing it. Breakfast was carrot, celery & garlic juice - I'm going to take it real slow and work out what is causing it. For the last 30 years I had some pretty bad flares (used to use an upside down hockey stick to help me walk) but most of the time was ok - even with a daily yoghurt. You're probably right about dairy.
Roni

Hi SJLC
Thanks for your info. The Life Extension 5-Loxin has good reviews and I tried to order a heap of them, but they won't ship to either of my addresses. I'll try to find another source. I'll be in the USA in Feb/Mar, I'll try to get some shipped to my hotel if necessary.
Cheers
Roni

I discussed this a bit with my general physician, and here is how I understand it. It is also consistent with what I read in the Carol Sinclair diet book.

Klebsiella are very versatile and can subsist on all kinds of carbs, everything from sugars to paper mill waste...
http://openlibrary.org/works/OL12225537W...mill_wastewater

The reason different types of carbs have different effects when eaten is NOT that the Klebsiella are only interested in certain types, but that our own body is more efficient at metabolizing certain types. Starch digests slowly, especially amylose starch (interesting post about types of starch over here). It sits around in the intestines being decomposed by bacteria such as klebsiella. Glucose is digested much faster (ask any diabetic) and thus shouldn't stick around long enough to cause a bacteria population explosion. Depending on the efficiency of your digestion, carbs with complexity in between glucose sugar and amylose starch may or may not be ok. Lots of people have problems digesting lactose efficiently, so that's why dairy foods with lactose are a common problem.

SJLC, thx for the concise explanation about Klebsiella and carbs. The effeciency of a person's digestion would explain the differences in our reactions to varied starches and sugars. I wonder if enzymes (lactase, amylase, etc.) would help some people to better digest carbs before those carbs reach the colon.

--Greg

SJLC,

Good info you posted. Do you know why a person can reintroduce starchy foods after months of being on NSD? Is it because they have healed their gut? Or is it because there are less klebs and less klebs mean less pain?
I am negative HLA B27, but the diet has lowered my esr from the 50's to the 30's in 3 months, I have had to cut out dairy, beef and nightshades, but it's ok becasue the pain gets better.

thank you.
take care.