Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; NSD-Frustrated

Hello All,

I've been on the NSD for just about 4 weeks now. I've been as strict as I possibly can ingesting only traces of starch as far as I know. I'm frustrated because not only did I have a terrible flare this past weekend, but I've developed new joint pain in my fingers--thumb and middle fingers. I know I probably haven't been on it long enough, but some of you seem to have experienced success so quickly. I'm beginning to suspect sugar is causing me to flare as last Friday I had a cappucino from Starbucks and added sugar(in the raw). That evening I had the most excruciating neck and back pain and had to take a pain killer, glass of wine and a hot bath. (this did help;-)

Here is what I've been eating over the past few weeks. Any suggestions?
-Eggs, eggs and more eggs
-fresh pineapple, apples, pears
-almonds(raw and smoked),pumpkin seeds
-dried cranberries, apricots, raisins
-Raw Lettuce, carrots, cucumber, radishes(balsamic vinegar and oil dressing)
-steak, pork, chicken, fish/shrimp
-cheese
-apple, grape and cranberry juice
-ice cream(breyers vanilla)
-hersheys chocolate bars(maybe one per week)
-Steamed broccoli, asparagus, peppers, onions, zucchini, yellow squash, mushrooms
-decaf herbal tea/lots of filtered water
-red wine in moderation

As far as supplements, I take Calcium, Grape Seed Extract, Probiotics, Garlic and Colostrum.

I'm 5'2'' , 102 lbs and very active. I don't need to lose any weight and I'm afraid if I cut out sugar I'm going to drop even more.

Any help would be appreciated. I'm very frustrated and desperate to feel better!
Thanks!
Meredith

I'm looking at the NSD as well, and I thought you are allowed NO dairy.

Doug

Doug,

Some people can eat dairy and some can't... who knows why!

Meredith,

I'm sure John will be along shortly to help you out!!! Until then, keep trying!!! It does work!



Hugs!!!
Melinda

Dear Meredith:

There is still plenty we are learning about the NSD and the very individualistic responses to it. Some of our members have had trouble with sugar, possibly due to an overgrowth of C. albicans, which can increase LGS. If this is the case, there is almost no doubt that some other sugars, such as the lactose in milk/icecream/chocolate will make matters even worse.

The inflammation cycle in AS might include some things like “dumping,” where food progresses too quickly out of the stomach/duodenum. Very cold foods, alcohol, narcotics, overeating, low stomach acid (drinking too much before or during meals), can promote this activity. Some of the lactose, which will make it much lower into the digestive process than other sugars, is almost certainly involved in the life cycle of the K. pneumoniae, even without any unnatural dumping.

The first goal of the AS diet should be to heal up any intestinal lesions and if possible at the same time eliminate inflammation-provoking elements from the diet. Once the intestines are healed, some of the normally beneficial foods that might participate in the inflammation cycle, will not cause the same level of trouble.

I recognize that you might be in a situation with regard to lower weight and now finding it difficult to maintain reasonable reserves, considering the NSD. For this regimen to be successful, it almost has to be initiated with a ‘kick-start.’

The NSD alone, I am now convinced, would not have worked for me; I combined it with antibiotic therapy to obtain very quick positive results—after a couple of ‘false starts.’ Later, I was able to do a couple of apple diets before I could leave off the antibiotics altogether. Often, over the years, I had great results from fasting, but that might be out of the question for many people without enough extra weight already. I did relieve ulcers, proctitis, and diverticulitis permanently by undertaking a protracted fast, so I am certain of the value of fasting relative to healing the alimentary tract. If you are still taking NSAIDs, it is almost certain that your tract is being re-injured. I wish I had a smart way around this issue beyond the effectiveness and quickness of fasting or the apple diet.

The NSD should sometimes be considered a high-protein diet, but as I do not have experience with meat products yet, I rely on restricted sources and complex amino acids that have kept me going over the last three years.

From what I have read in the Cayce material relative to AS, fatty meats are not good for us, so if the pork and beef could be replaced—even on a temporary basis—with chicken and seafish, this might help. Also, red meats (the beef and pork again) and egg yolks do participate in the “arachidonic acid cascade;” our main inflammatory pathway. Egg-white omelets and salmon are considered by some researchers as reasonable anti-inflammatory foods along with fresh cantaloupe, other melons, nuts like raw almonds, walnuts, and filberts, and raw vegetables in good variety. These things primarily until the flare is under control; egg yolks, especially, at other times are very important for us.

One of the other ideas from the Cayce material is to take in about a tablespoonful of ‘extra virgin (cold-pressed) olive oil’ daily. I do this on occasion and feel that it is best at night to ‘seal over’ the lesions by taking some of this, flaxseed oil, cod liver oil (not a total veggie), vitE, and sometimes when in flare I take borage seed oil (evening primrose oil is equivalent).

The anti Candidaisis (sp?) diet is almost more difficult than the NSD, in the elimination of both starches and sugars replaced by proteins and fats, but I believe that a significant number of us have both AS and this yeast problem.

It is frustrating, but when I was in full-on flare I could hardly tell whether I was getting better in small increments or not. If you have increased ESR, you might be monitoring this. On his LSD, many of Ebringer’s patients took 9 months to respond; the same theory might hold that the NSD will be faster.

Good luck to you and I know exactly what you are going through—being now in a serious flare myself, almost certainly induced by the supplement CMO…

John

Well I think John covered the A- Z of it all. Let me say simply to trial a "no diary" addition to the NSD. This means cut out the chocolate as well, no cheese, milk, etc. Replace dairy with soy milk - I find the regular is best. It has more oil in it so it tastes better and also will help maintain your weight.

Apart from that your diet looks fine to me. Just trail the no diary addition for two weeks and see how you go.

Don't think you can - KNOW YOU CAN

Hi Meredith,

I just started up on the diet a week ago with success thus far (also went on this diet 2 yrs ago when bumped off sulfasalazine for a while). I can appreciate my pain while not on the diet and it is like day and night in the right hip and low back (when not on sulfasalazine as I am now). I can drop some weight, but there is not much (6'4" and 205lbs... have dropped a few lbs already... still have room to drop some more... but not much).

I assume each person reacts differently to different foods. But here is what I learned over the week thus far other than eliminating starchy foods.

- Pork is out for me. Have been making eggs and sausage for breakfast. Sausages were pork product. I would wake up in the morning fine.... but as day went on stiffness set in on lower back (which is contrary to AS... typically morning stiffness and gets better as day proceeds which were my symptoms when first diagnosed pre-meds 5-6 yrs ago). Tossed out the sausage and I felt fine all day.

- Tested chicken today. Had for dinner 4-5 hours ago. I typically have the stiffness set in 2-3 hours after consuming it seems. Does not appear to be a problem at this point (have my fingers crossed on this one).

- Want to re-test beef. I do not think it is a problem.... but want to clear the air now that I have the pork sausage out of the way and can be more objective.

Unsure about the dairy... have done no testing here yet. I am slowly testing the foods one at a time so I can be very objective. This diet has definitely made grocery shopping more interesting.

Question for others:
- Do you avoid canned fruits & vegitables and stick with fresh. I have been thus far. Only canned I typically ate in the past was cranberry and pineapple (when not in season).

Take care,

Tim

Dear Meredith,

Sorry to hear that you are struggling. I've never had the pain in hands as I have related it to AS. Perhaps that is because being a mechanic can make them hurt anyway. It does sound like a RA related symptom. I do remember a particularly nasty flare that started with 2 capuccinos during a long ride to meeting that I SAT in for 5 days. I don't know if it was the cappucinos from the gas stations or the prolonged periods or resting on my SI joints. It could have even been a flare induced by a bug in a poorly maintained cappucino machine. Either way, I avoid cappucinos and prolong sitting now.

Hang in there. Don't give up. The alternatives are like a "Train Wreck". Even if you would have AS and some other reactive arthritis, you can do this. The NSD took three months to give me relief and it is still a struggle at times. I feel this would have taken even longer if I had not been prescibed 8 weeks of antibiotics for another condition of a masculine nature.

As for diet, one thing that seems to really help me is the dark green leafy things like spinach, collards, turnip greens and kale. These were not the most appetizing at first but I've found them much more tolerable when eaten with high protein foods like eggs and fish. I've also read that they have an alkylizing (ph raising) affect on the body, and that the infectious organisms hate this-- alot.

Hoping You get Relief Soon,
Ike

Meredith,

I think squash is rather starchy, pumpkin seeds also. Should not be eaten in any quantity. Takes a little time and not a little patience to learn a new diet. Good luck.

Thank you all for your supportive responses and suggestions. I'm going to cut out the sugars for a while although it's going to be difficult. I've never had a sweet tooth, but seem to crave it now that I don't eat starch. I don't seem to have much response to the dairy, but I'll cut back on that for now too. I am completely off NSAIDs and have just taken a pain killer or two during the past few weeks to get by. After reading all of your comments, I wonder if I should start a course of antibiotics. I've really been opposed to this up until now, but not sure I'm going to get any results unless I "kickstart" as you suggested. John, would you suggest starting antibiotics or trying the apple diet first and then a course of antibiotics?

Thank goodness Spring is here and the fresh fruit and vegetable selection is greatly improving. Tim, as for canned fruit and vegetables I've found that so many of them contain corn syrup and added sugars that I've tried to avoid them if fresh is available. It does make things difficult always having to keep fresh produce on hand which goes bad quickly.

Bilko, thanks for pointing out that pumpkin seeds and squash are starchy--did not know this.

To everyone who is doing well on the NSD, I hope to keep reading your positive posts and that you continue to get better and better. I know I'm on the right track, but need to fine tune the diet a bit. John, hope you get out of your flare soon too!!

Thanks!
Meredith

Hello,
I have been on the no-starch/maybe low starch diet for about a month. I started with the apple diet and have been taking tetracycline too. The fast made me flare but the NSD is making things gradually better, although it might be just the placebo effect and my will to get better. But still, like what'shisname just said, it's almost as if I can feel food flaring me within a few hours.
Peppers seem to be one of the worst flare foods. Have you tried eliminating nightshades? Has anyone else tried that? Oh, and too much sugar seems bad. And I've given up milk for the time being, as well as yoghurt. Raisins, nuts, tunafish, eggs, vegetables and fruit, I feel, are all essential. I'm not sure really what effect if any the antibiotics are having. I just figured I would give them a try. Also, since starting the NSD, I am taking one less NSAID every day, but I'm still having to take 2 voltarol every day, though I don't need them to sleep anymore. One day when I get my own computer, I'll log on to this site for real.
Tom