Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; Anyone have oxalic acid issues?

I'm still waiting for my test results, but my functional medicine doctor suspects that I may have major issues with oxalic acids from my food building up in my body. Most people can handle it just fine, but some folks can't. I have several health problems that may be related to it (such as 4 kidney stone attacks).

I was just planning to start a juice fast next week, but right now that's not a good idea because juices really concentrate the oxalic acids and many veggies are already very high in it. And I'm already showing more signs of excess oxalates from all the green smoothies and juices I've already added to my diet over the last several months.

Anybody else have issues with this? I really dread the thought of going on a low oxalic diet.

Yes, I do. Vegetables and nuts(almonds) high in oxalic acid cause me terrible abdominal pain.

A lady named Susan Owens used to have a yahoo forum about oxalates, geered mainly toward helping autistic children. I think the forum is no longer running but a lot of the information is still out there.

There also used to be a young lady named Emma with multiple plant chemical problems who ran a forum, but I haven't seen that lately, either. She said that both her and her mother became sensitive to plant chemicals ( salicylates, maybe glutamates, too) after having a bad flu or virus. I thought that was very interesting, espcially since autism brings with it a lot of symptoms of pathogenic origin. I would very frequently see people with Gulf Syndrome having symptoms similar to mine, too. I actually just looked up Emma and found some her blogs. She says a lot of people who think they have oxalate issues really just have amines and salicylate issues, FWIW. Might just add confusion, sorry.)

A type of green drink that is low in plant chemicals and provides a lot of good nutrients is chlorella. I'll have to verify this, but I think cucumber(peeled) and apple juice would be okay for someone with oxalate sensitivity.
There's not a whole of lot variety of plants when you are bothered by plant chemicals.

Sundance,
What other kind of issues come about with the oxalic acid? I think I read about it once but did not have any of the symptims and my best days are just eating raw fruits and veggies.

I'm sorry you having a hard time with the green smoothies becaiuse they are so beneficial. Hopefully your dr can guide you to some fruits and veggies low on the oxalic list, I remember there being a list of foods you can print out with the levels from low to high or safe or unsafe. Did you see this list? I don't know if its helpful for your situation, its been awhile since I looked into it.

Hope you get better.

Susan Owens is still running the yahoo forum on oxalate issues: Trying Low Oxalates. I've just joined it. They provide an extensive updated list of foods that have been recently tested for oxalate levels. They have been able to identify some varieties of vegetables that have lower oxalates, such as bok choi, lacinato kale, pumpkin seeds (soaked and dried), etc.

A low oxalic diet is often no more than 60 mg/day of oxalic acid. I checked the oxalic levels for 2 randomly selected days in my food diary - one day I ate over 700 mg/day, and the other was over 1,000 mg/day. Those are extremely high levels, whether you have oxalate problems or not! Most of that came from just spinach and swiss chard alone.

The OAT report that I'm waiting for will clearly tell us if I really have oxalate issues or not - and it also tests for a lot of other things.

Here is a list of some issues that may be oxalate related:

Autism Spectrum Disorders and other developmental disorders
Irritable Bowel
Vulvodynia (genital, rectal, urinary symptoms as per http://www.thevpfoundation.org/vpfabout.htm)
low energy/fatigue
poor sleep, insomnia, night-waking
various kinds of pain symptoms, including joints and arthritis
Fat malabsorption and gut problems of all sorts
Depression, anxiety, foggy brain
Salicylate sensitivity
Skin issues: Acne-like rashes, Eczema flare-ups
Kidney Stones
Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue
Interstitial Cystitis
Chronic Candida

You're right, it's still there. Let us know if the change in diet helps any of your symptoms.

I did rejoin to see if they have any new information. The main thing I'm wondering is why oxalates don't bother everyone. Goitrogens and salicylic acid are like that, too, some people do fine and others have to avoid them at all costs.

This is very interesting to me but really confuses me further. One minute I think I have FODMAP issues, then I read something like this and think, "hey that's it, I have oxalic acid issues" but just don't know. I only say this as the last time I did a juice fast, I literally had immediate diarrhea after drinking my green juice which was usually some combo of cucumber, celery, kale, spinach, collards, bok choy, or cabbage. Everytime after drinking the juice it would go straight through me as if my body was saying I don't need this stuff anymore! But not sure what that leaves beyond just meat. Well Sundance, I hope you get it figured it out and it eases some of your symptoms.

Jason

One easy way to tell if you have oxalic acid issues is when you eat something very high in oxalic acid your teeth feel like they have some sort of grit all over them. For me spinach and swiss chard are the one that make this most obvious for me. With nuts it may happen a little while after eating them. I had been noticing that problem lately and when I went to take a fresh look at the list I saw turmeric. I had been using about a tsp of turmeric in my coconut milk curry. And since I wasn't focusing on that issue so much, I had been eating walnuts, too.

I don't know if that's a completely reliable way to tell, but that does happen to other people with the problem.

I tried eating beans for a couple of weeks, and got very acidic. I never thought about the oxalic acid, unfortunately. thanks for bringing this up, Sundance. You have a good doctor!

Yes, it doesn't leave much. It's funny that it leaves just meat,(and a few other things) because the oxalic acid is a symptom not the cause, or else everyone would have the problem. So I am thinking that uric acid precipitated in the tissue might be the predisposing factor.

The oxalic acid bonds with calcium, which also makes me wonder if it's the predisposing factor in calcification of intervertebral soft tissue.

Vitamins A, D, and K2 are so important in calcium metabolism, and might have a part to play in this, too.

It also makes me wonder if oxalic acid issues cause soft enamel leading to cavities (which I have a lot of). Gee, that's why I had 16 amalgam fillings! You know what the amalgam fillings cause....

I think I'll go cry, excuse me.

I'll come cry with you and we can lament our choice of foods together!

This is fascinating to me Violeta. That gritty feeling on your teeth that your talking about. That is EXACTLY what I would feel after drinking the green juice during my fast. Although I'm not sure if that was from the juice itself. I eat spinach smoothies every morning and don't have that gritty feeling on my teeth then? However, looking at the list of high oxalic acid foods, I eat everything on there in spades. I mean, leafy greens are my staple food since I'm not supposed to be eating nightshades or sugar for that matter so I don't even eat fruit? I also eat nuts a lot since that's the only snack I've got. Sheesh, what's really left then? Never had any issues with Gout, Kidney Stones, or anything else like that.

Still working on my chelating too! Maybe this is the missing key for me.

This past year has without a doubt been the most excellent year I have had in so many many years. I feel unstoppable.

It might mostly be my mostly raw vegan diet, BUT I did also have all of my amalgam fillings out a year ago too. I had like 8 or 9 removed. I bet its related more than I realize?

For many years past I suffered and suffered from candida like symptoms, bloating, fatigue, crawling restless legs, flaring joint pains.... not sure if it is all gone now cuz of being grain free, and raw/vegan, and how much has to do with getting rid of all that mercury. My mood is better, my stress is less, and I bet alot of my overall well being is better due to have that nastyness out of my body too.

Very curious to hear how things transpire after your mercuy removal!!

xox

xoxo

My grocery list is very short, as usual. If you go to the low oxalate list and then start crossing off foods that you can't eat for other reasons, it gets really scary. Dairy is low in a lot of problematic things, so for about the last 5 years I ended up always going back to dairy. It had to be raw dairy because once it's pasteurized I can't handle it at all. But that causes me a lot of problems, too, maybe even worse. The more dairy I eat the less other stuff I can eat.

Maybe what's causing the oxalate problem is causing a lot of our other problems, too. So all we need to do is figure out what's causing our problems.

Yeah, I ate my share of leafy greens, the more the better, or so I thought. I can't handle goitrogens, either, so I was getting a double whammy.

What all do you put in your spinach smoothies? Maybe you could replace the spinach with chlorella. I came to the conclusion a few years ago that the safest green is chlorella (but I'm having a hard time making myself drink it) and now I'm trying to be consistent with kelp extract for other minerals.

To tell you the truth, I've been living on coconut milk curry made with scallions, red peppers, and a little bit of celery over either white basmati rice or white noodles. You can add green beans, too, if you like, the haricot vert being the best. One day I made rice pudding with coconut milk, cinnamon, raisins, and maple syrup. I also got some fresh organic apple cider for a little treat. I ordered some B complex and vitamin a. It seems you would just have to come up with some vitamin shortages on such a restricted diet. I don't know how long I can keep this up. Maybe along the way necessity, the mother of invention, will lead me to something else that I can eat.
I know this isn't a no starch diet, but it seems to be less damaging for me because adrenal insufficiency.

I haven't been admitted to the low oxalate forum yet, maybe Sundance will come back with some good news!