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Joined: Jun 2013
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If you're in Los Angeles this Sunday (2/9/14), a Clinical Ayurvedic Specialist will be our guest speaker at the education/support group meeting for people living with SpA.

Our speaker is Eleni Tsikrikas, Clinical Ayurvedic Specialist and PanchaKarma Specialist. This is a wonderful opportunity to hear about additional approaches to health and healing. Let me know if you wish to join us. It's always a pleasure to meet others in person.

If that's not enough, I will provide a free yoga lesson after the meeting to the first person that requests it.

The meeting is from 2pm to 4pm. Please don't hesitate to contact me if you have any questions. Richard@spondylitis.org http://www.spondylitis.org/patient_resources/sg_losangeles.aspx


Dx AS 1989. Also UC, Iritis. HLA-B27 neg. No meds at this time. Fused SI. Fusion in neck. Anusara yoga & spin. Husband & father.
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Please be careful and get the latest information regarding this alternative medicine:

Quote:
Ayurvedic treatments are primarily dietary and herbal. As I note elsewhere, dangerous amounts of lead have been found in Ayurvedic medicines, including ghasard, a brown powder given to relieve constipation in babies, and mahayogaraj gugullu, for high blood pressure. A study of shops in the Boston area by Robert Saper et al. found high concentrations of lead, mercury, and arsenic in Ayurvedic medicine. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported 12 cases of lead poisoning in 2004 associated with Ayurvedic remedies in Texas, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, New York, and California.


Quote:
However, if you are attracted to treatments that use superstition, incantations, amulets, spells, and mantras then, by all means, try Ayurveda. There are many schools in India that grant degrees in Ayurvedic medicine. No school grants such a degree in the United States and if you want to practice Ayurveda here you do so as a practitioner of "alternative" or complementary medicine.


http://www.skepdic.com/ayurvedic.html


Timo
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Ha-ha Timo. That's a pretty funny reply. Your source is hysterical, from a retired community college philosophy teacher.

"Nothing communicated in any KickAS.org discussion forum should be construed as medical advice"
https://www.kickas.org/

To be clear, I am not a proponent of ayurvda medicine. Our support group has also hosted some of the top Rheumatologists/researcher in the United States.

I don't relish being in a position to defend ayurveda medicine. Amidst your sarcastic quote, you brought up a good point: I was aware of the controversy regarding the risky ingredients and we will definitely ask the speaker about it. Risks are always weighed regarding treatments.

Nor would I relish defending every western medicine treatment for AS over the years, some of which has been life threatening and extremely counterproductive.

Yet, it's worth learning about it. Here is what credible sources say:

"Ayurveda is a traditional Indian practice that takes a holistic approach to wellness, employing herbal medicine, meditation and exercise to promote good health. It exists alongside modern medicine in India, with its own network of clinics, hospitals and colleges serving hundreds of millions of patients. Ayurveda, or ayurvedic medicine, is a healthy-lifestyle system that people in India have used for more than 5,000 years. Ayurveda emphasizes good health and prevention and treatment of illness through lifestyle practices (such as massage, meditation, yoga, and dietary changes) and the use of herbal remedies. Ayurvedic medicine is holistic, which means viewing the body and mind as a whole. Ayurveda not only treats a person's physical complaints, but it also changes lifestyle practices to help maintain or improve health."
http://www.webmd.com/balance/tc/ayurveda-topic-overview

"Ayurveda can have positive effects when used as a complementary therapy in combination with standard, conventional medical care."
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/healthlibrary/conditions/complementary_and_alternative_medicine/ayurveda_85,P00173/

"In this first-ever, double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled pilot study comparing Ayurveda, MTX, and their combination, all 3 treatments were approximately equivalent in efficacy, within the limits of a pilot study. Adverse events were numerically fewer in the Ayurveda-only group."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21617554

"Ayurvedic practices such as yoga and meditation can be safe ways to promote health. If you have a long-term illness, you may be able to combine ayurveda with conventional medical treatment."
https://healthy.kaiserpermanente.org/health/care/!ut/p/a0/FchBCsIwEAXQE5VvUaS48wxFNNmUcTo0wWQy1EHp7bXL9xDxQFT65IU8N6Xyd-CmLuqXJFQ8daK8cWkmcybcERFtpaUSgraOiZPsx76ZILyeO9I3zwhEfX8eToe3CWMUnW4jrNbhWKfrD7YkYnk!/

I think this was my first post on KickAS. I was a little taken aback at the source and tone of the quote. Whatever happened to "provide a safe, supportive place for individuals and their loved ones to share with, and learn from, the experience of others coping with chronic inflammatory arthritis"?

Timo, I hope you can come to the support group meeting. It's held at the Spondylitis Association of America's office in Los Angeles.


Dx AS 1989. Also UC, Iritis. HLA-B27 neg. No meds at this time. Fused SI. Fusion in neck. Anusara yoga & spin. Husband & father.
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There are lots of views opposing Ayurvedic out there. We can go back and forth but all I'm doing is to make sure the wallets of people are not emptied by procedures/medicines that could do just that without benefit. We've seen it here many, many times and I just want people to be aware of what they are getting into. I would, and have, taken even more "sarcastic" tones regarding homeopathy which is a totally proven scam.

It is things like this that scare me (from Wikipedia) and tell me if this is factually in error:

Quote:
According to a 1990 study on ayurvedic medicines in India, 41% of the products tested contained arsenic, and 64% contained lead and mercury.[38] A 2004 study found toxic levels of heavy metals in 20% of ayurvedic preparations made in South Asia and sold in the Boston area; it concluded that ayurvedic products posed serious health risks and should be tested for heavy-metal contamination.[71] A 2008 study of more than 230 products found that approximately 20% of remedies (and 40% of rasa shastra medicines) purchased over the Internet from U.S. and Indian suppliers contained lead, mercury or arsenic.[6][72][73] In 2012 the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) linked Ayurvedic drugs to lead poisoning, based on some cases where toxic materials were found in the blood of pregnant women who had taken Ayurvedic drugs.[74]
Ayurvedic proponents believe that the toxicity of these materials is reduced through purification processes such as samskaras or shodhanas (for metals), similar to the Chinese pao zhi, although the ayurvedic technique is more complex and may involve prayers as well as physical pharmacy techniques. However, these products have nonetheless caused severe lead poisoning and other toxic effects.[72][75]



Last edited by Timo; 02/05/14 05:40 AM.

Timo
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Noted: People shouldn't take substances that are harmful.

Again, I'm not defending ayurveda here. Just encouraging people to come to a support group meeting, where the speaker -this time- is an ayurvedic specialist.

This is pretty ironic discussion we are having because Eleni promotes and teaches healthy and tasty cooking. Her recipes and ingredients are found here: http://www.joyfulbelly.com/Ayurveda/practitioner/Eleni-Tsikrikas/6265 (lead and mercury are not on the shopping list)

A wholesale dismissal of what has to be one of the most established medical approaches, one practiced today in the second most populated country in the world because of a paragraph in Wikipedia is a bit over zealous. Aside from that valid 191 word warning on wikipedia, there are 3,280 other words touching upon a very rich, multilevel approach to health and healing.

Would you like to join us via skype? Keep your wallet in the next room. No one has ever bought anything at our AS Education/Support Group Meeting :-)


Dx AS 1989. Also UC, Iritis. HLA-B27 neg. No meds at this time. Fused SI. Fusion in neck. Anusara yoga & spin. Husband & father.
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If it is, as you say,"one of the most established medical approaches", why are there no degrees available in the US for this? One would think the US would be extremely interested in promoting and advancing the approach. But they do not.
I guess my question is, why is it not mainstream medicine after all these centuries instead of still being referred to as alternative or complementary?

Found this. Modern medicine would be doing handstands and Nobel Prizes would be given out if the following were true:

Quote:
Ayurveda can successfully balance simptoms and root cause of::

- Digestive system: Constipation, Irritable Bowel Syndrome, Gallstones, Ulcers, Celiac disease...
- Respiratory system: Bronchitis, Common Cold, Asthma, Fever, Influenza...
- Urinary/Male Reproductive systems: Interstitial Benign Prostatic Hypertrophy...
-Cardiovascular system: Hypertension, Raynaud's disease, Varicose Veins, Arteriosclerosis/Atherosclerosis, Angina Pectoris...
- Female Reproductive system: PMS, Menopause, Vulvovaginitis, Dysmenorrhea, Amenorhea, Abnormal Bleeding...
- Nervous system: Headaches, Epilepsy, Multiple Sclerosis, Insomnia, Depression...
- Endocrine System: Hyper/Hypo thyroidism, Allergies, Fibromyalgia...
- Skin conditions...


http://www.lightofayurveda.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=37&Itemid=95

Last edited by Timo; 02/05/14 11:38 PM.

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Timo,


I'm not pushing any particular type of medicine but I do recognize the huge limitations provided by the only one "recognized"(in the West). It is a system that is great for emergency care and symptom management, but has failed miserably for cures, causes, and care.

the creation of the medical schools and structures of western medicine were geared to promote only one type of "healing"- the most profitable. Drugs and surgery.

To use the western criteria of mainstream medicine and education as being the only "legitimate" one is a bit absurd. For Example: Where are the classes for nutrition in medical schools? it's not required in most medical schools in the US and where it is required,there are only a few hours devoted to it. Never mind that, in the West, rickets is coming back,scurvy is coming back, type 2 diabetes is exploding and they are all related to nutrition.

I know nothing about Ayurvedic practices and would enjoy leaning more about it to decide for myself if it was something I would want to pursue.

However, I can attest to significant health benefits with simple meditation and not eating processed food. Things that an MD would call "alternative" have provided me with a greater lessening of health issues than the drugs (which I do use). The drugs are complementary to everything else I do-not the other way around-based on which have provided the greater control over my health.




Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
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Timo,

I just wanted to let people know that we are having a support group meeting in Los Angeles this Sunday.

I will let the speaker discuss the topic and answer questions. We have had several speakers at our meetings including Dr. Weisman and Dr. Yu. They both are at the top of the field of AS research and AS clinical practice in the USA. Dr. Yu also has practiced in China for many years.

Please join us if you have questions.

I don't see how continued posts on this thread will advance my original purpose to let people know that there was face-to-face support for people living with SpA.

Sending thoughts & prayers for health to anyone reading this reply.

To peace,
Rich


Dx AS 1989. Also UC, Iritis. HLA-B27 neg. No meds at this time. Fused SI. Fusion in neck. Anusara yoga & spin. Husband & father.
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I think it's always good for broadening ones own horizons to see the same thing through different eyes. The difficulty arises when folks with extremely right wing or left wing views want to stand on their pedestal and shout the other one down by screaming "I am the only one whose view is RIGHT!!!"

Like Timo, I could come across as a bit of a cynic when it comes to "alternative" practices that have not stood up to scientific and objective scrutiny. However, the flip side of the coin is that I see many patients who are bullied by their doctors to take expensive and sometimes ineffective medicines because the doctor is arrogant enough to believe that the patient has NO RIGHT to participate in the decision making process. It should always be about INFORMED CONSENT. smile

My take is that knowledge is power and that there are many folks in this world who are not particularly well informed on specific matters (eg: Ayurveda in this instance ). Folks come out of the woodwork with polarised opinions and that can lead to the 'average person' being no better informed. It sounds to me as if this lady will give her necessarily biased but informed view of the value of Ayurvedic practices. It is up to the audience to take the information offered and ask themselves "Is this something that I would like to investigate further?"

There are those who say that the Low Starch Diet has not been sufficiently "proven" to be worth trying........ because the *only way* to test this is for some big pharmaceutical company to fund research which is clearly NOT in their best interests. Does that mean it is 100% fakery ??? Just ask all the happy NSDers here - and I would venture to say that they are not mindless drones who have been sucked in by an unproven fallacy..... (myself included).

What I want to know is why the Western medical profession is happy to admit that diet is a significant contributing factor (NOT sole cause...) of many common ills such as heart disease and diabetes, yet they are NOT prepared to entertain for a minute that diet may be a SIGNIFICANT FACTOR IN REDUCING THE INCIDENCE / SEVERITY OF DISEASE.

Hypocrisy - yeah sure - I think there are mainstream medical professionals (some, NOT ALL) who have sworn the Hypocritical oath, not the Hippocratic oath! wink

As for Ayurveda - all I can say is turmeric and frankincense ALL THE WAY!!! clap clap clap


Louise

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I totally agree. Informed people are people who are able to make better decisions and that's a good thing all the way around.
As Molly has pointed out in a comment, patients should have a voice and the British Medicine Journal (BMJ) agrees:

Rise and Reach Of Expert Patients

We, as AS sufferers, have a valid voice when dealing with doctors because we are the ones who deal with it each and every day and we can fall back on the experiences of others in our position.
As I've said on many occasions, there is only one medical "law" and that is that we are all wired differently so any treatment/medicine/procedure will affect us all differently. No blanket statements on cure rates etc. allowed.


Timo
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