Kickas.org Forums Ankylosing Spondylitis General Discussion #1 AS Web Support Group HLA B27

I meant to type that Haida indians I think have a high HLAB27 count. (sorry about that)

Don't think you can - KNOW YOU CAN

Evelyn,

the assessment of the molecular mimicry hypothesis depends on which authors are selected. The one you choose says it needs to address the issue of tissue specificity. If I understand this correctly, I think the following paper, Tiwana et al, Correlation between the immune responses to collagens type I, III, IV and V and Klebsiella pneumoniae in patients with Crohn's disease and ankylosing spondylitis, in Rheumatology 2001;40:15-23, is relevant.

With regard to the diet what is needed when the funds are made available is a prescriptive clinical trial. But those who use the diet should know there is now a considerable body of theory to explain their success and they should not be fobbed off with glib references to the placebo effect.

I had read somewhere, can't remember where, that there is a higher incidence of AS among the Scottish, British and Irish than other nationalities. The Scandinavian link is very interesting. I am of Scottish and English descent, with just a touch of Irish, on both sides of my family with nothing else mixed in. I am HLA B27 positive.

It would be interesting to know what HLA B27 does in the body, but I am not sure that anyone really knows as of yet. Because AS is so rare, there have been less research dollars spent on it than RA.

It was also interesting to read in the posts in this thread that AS is more prevalent among whites with HLA B27 than among darker skinned people who have the HLA B27 gene. I am extremely fair skinned and sunburn easily. I am brunette, but there are several blondes and redheads in the family, also extremely fair skinned. I wonder if most of you are also extremely fair skinned?

Also, just for your information, the Haida are North American aboriginals who live along the British Columbia coastline in Canada. I'm not sure, but I think they live in the northern part of the province and may even extend into Alaska.

Val.

Lets make it more simply to understand. Dx AS with this gene would be like saying " since I have a Georgia Lottery Ticket, I am going to win the Georgia Lottery. Unless some researcher knocked on the door every eskimos' igloo and took a sample of their DNA, these statistics are meaningless. I would like to know the % per capita of samples taken. I imagine less than .00000041.

Edited by oilme on 04/24/02 07:34 AM (server time).

Actually, one does not have to knock on every door to get credible stats. The sample size just needs to be high enough and certain other criteria met. Stats aren't perfect but performed correctly give us valuable information about the population.

We all know that being HLA B27 positive does not automatically mean you will get AS - it just means you are more "at risk" than someone who is neg.

Don't think you can - KNOW YOU CAN

I don't have any info of the study that found the high incidence of HLAB27 in the Eskimo people but I do know about the study done by three British Columbia Rheumatologists who examined ALL the male Haidas during the late 1960's and found that 1 out of 10 of them had signs of AS.

The study included just the Haida group living on the northern tip of Vancouver Island which had a population greater than the American Haida group living in Alaska.

The information I am reading from is a summary of the study by one of the researchers. Actually, there was more than one study as the same 3 researchers went back to the Haida community and tested the majority of them for HLAB27 and it is their results that are quoted when you read that 50 percent of the Haida Nation tested positive for HLAB27.

So, in the first study, assuming the numbers of females and males are equal, then 50 percent of the population was examined.

In the second study, over half the population was tested.

I am trying to get a copy of both of the full studies. It may be possible as one of them was my first Rheumatologist.

George

Breb Assyl

Hi George. Glad you found such a renowned Reumatologist. But just a minute. The eskimos are eating the starch free diet and therefore should have less AS. I am getting confused. According to your Doctors findings they would have a rate of 10%. Maybe we should quit eating kippers? Charles.

Whoa Charles,

First of all, I admit to an error in what I posted. I can't type as fast as my mind works and probably never will. I should have said that the Haida Nation is on the Queen Charlotte Islands which are north of Vancouver Island and close to Alaska. This is not Eskimo territory and the Haida would be offended if you call them Eskimos. They have never lived in igloos.

The Haidas probably now eat some starches but not as much as we would. They do consume a lot of fish plus who knows what.

The study did indeed find in the 1960's that 1 out of 10 men in the tribe had some degree of AS and a study 10 years later did show that 50 percent of the population were HLAB27 positive.

At the time of the study, they did visit a native tribe living in Bella Bella on the mainland and a bit south of the Queen Charlotte Islands. This tribe also showed the same level of AS (about 50 percent) among the males as did the Haida. Interestingly though, another related tribe several miles further inland had a incidence of AS much like our own for the rest of Canada.

As the Researchers still practice as Rheumatologists in Vancouver, I will try and get together with one of them to get the main body of the study. From what I have read in this summary, the men knew about the discovery of the HLAB27 antigen and went back to these areas to do the testing. This was difficult and I will post some of this shortly. Of course, the study did not find anything much about the cause of AS but it did present an intriguing possibility that so far, hasn't been explored as far as I know. (and it doesn't involve starch)

Will post more as I gather this info. Sorry about the error re where the Haida live.

George


Breb Assyl

An easy clarification is that there are two main issues:

1. The % of the population that is HLA B27 positive (i.e. 5 - 10% approx. of Anglo Saxon ancestry, maybe as suggested 50% of Eskimos, etc.)

2. The % of the population that gets AS.

Just because the Eskimos have a higher % of HLA B27 pos. doesn't necessarily lead to them having a high % of pop. with AS. It simply means that if they are exposed to the trigger that sets of AS (and many believe that to be Klebsiella) then their population will also have a higher % of those with AS.



Don't think you can - KNOW YOU CAN

This could also support that there is some benifit of having the gene in colder climates. As with the sickle cell example earlier, in places with maleria, people with two recessive SS genes can get maleria. People with the disease and carriers cannot get maleria. So the optimum is to be a carrier. This could be similar to the HLA B27/AS connection in people in colder enviroments. It would seem to me that there must be some advantage to Eskimos that would have caused them to adapt to some secondary problem by adapting. (people with HLA B27 have a resistance to virus X, thus they are better reproductivly, hence the percentage of the population with the gene goes up.) While the genetic trade off is that a small percentage gets AS, it is actually benificial for the group as a whole. Same thing with Sickle Cell. Since carriers are immune to maleria, in some parts of the world 10-15% of the populations is carriers of sickle cell, while in other parts of the world it is non-existant (because it is only a hinderence, there is no benifit for Eskimos to be resistant to maleria, if they have to trade that for a small risk of having Sickle Cell Disease.)

I hope that this is somewhat organized into rational thought, as I am quite a bit loopy from meds tonight, and also tired, but it does make sence, even if I boggled it up trying to explain it.

Just some food for thought. It's not like this is going to make any of our pain go away. But it is interesting to hypothesize about it.

Take care my friend

Daniel

Keep on keepin on Kicking some AS